Public schooling and indoctrination

My wife homeschools our kids. What happened to this man is part of the reason. “[H]is 5-year-old came home from school with homosexual materials”  (emphasis mine). He had just sent his child off to kindergarden at age five, and the school, in its wisdom, decided to give his son a bag of stuff about diversity. This included the book Who’s In a Family, by Robert Skutch. It teaches that the homosexual relationship is normal and good. He said he went to the school and “found out that their intention is to normalize homosexuality and gay marriage in the minds of very young children”. He asked for a heads up when this sort of thing would be discussed or handed out, so his family could opt out (this is not an uncommon request for religious resons). He was told, “We’re not going to give parental notification; we’re going to put it all throughout the curriculum. We can’t trust parents with these issues.”

They believe parents cannot be trusted to determine right and wrong. Parents can not be trusted to decide what is best for their child. Parents can not be trusted to direct the moral foundations of their child.

While I can see the point of the school officials in deciding to change the morals of a society through educating the young, I do not think it is the place of public education to do that. I also do not think it is the place of public education to prevent parents from deciding what is best for their children. When you feed a bunch of information to children via images and books and teacher-led discussion, it makes an impact. Plus peer pressure will also have an influence on children that age. All this is well known. It is the sort of indoctrination of which George Orwel warned.

Thought police are coming! Well, to be honest, the laws are already on the books in the form of hate crime legislation. No longer is it sufficient to punish someone for having done something wrong, now we get to heap additional punishment on someone because of how they think. Which of course, brings us back to the indoctrination of children in public schools. Once they indoctrinate little Mikey and little Janey that homosexuality is ok, no one could imagine that there would ever be any discussion about whether homosexuality is wrong – which is what God says in the Bible (see 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 1 Cor 6:9; Ephesians 5:5; 1 Timothy 1:10; Heb 12:16; Heb 13:4; Revelation 21:8;Re 22:15; Matthew 5:32; Mt 15:19; Mt 19:9; Mark 7:21; John 8:41; Acts 15:20 ; Acts 15:29; Acts 21:25; 1 Corinthians 5:1; 1 Cor 6:13; 1 Cor 6:18; 1 Cor 7:2; 2 Cor 12:21; Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5:3; Colossians 3:5 ; 1 Thessalonians 4:3; Revelation 2:21; Rev 9:21; Rev 14:8; Rev 17:2; Rev 17:4; Rev 18:3; Rev 19:2).

Public education has difficulty teaching children to read, write, and do arithmetic, but they’re great at indoctrinating kids about morals. Its a sad state of affairs. They should be focusing on what needs to be learned, rather than using schools as an education laboratory intended to mold society’s morals. Teach children HOW to think, and then let them do so, rather than teaching them WHAT to think and turning out brain washed children.

source: http://www.hslda.org/docs/hshb/84/hshbwk2.asp

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7 Responses

  1. I have to say that I don’t really see your logic.
    Those bible verses you cited – sure, one or two make reference to homosexuality, but only in the context of condemning it at the same time as heterosexuality.
    I’m glad you didn’t mention Leviticus – that book only applies to priests anyways, so it’s a shoddy argument.

    I’m a bisexual transsexual girl, but I find it hard to believe that a loving, kind God such as the one you claim to believe in would prefer your hateful rhetoric to mine. Honestly, it’s amazing how so many people decide to pick and choose the parts of their religion that suit their own views.

    I’ll analyze your quotes one by one, shall I?

    1 Corinthians 5:9
    “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people”
    …this has nothing to do with homosexuality. In that time, ANYONE who had sex outside of marriage was sexually immoral, as well as masturbators, etc…
    Look, different time, OK?
    1 Corinthians 5:10
    Same thing again. Also irrelevant.
    1 Corinthians 5:11 tells people “to not even eat” with such a man who is sexually immoral. All fine and dandy, but what CLASSIFIES sexual immorality? That bit I can’t seem to find anywhere.
    1 Corinthians 6:9 says that rapists, whether heterosexual or homosexual, don’t inherit the kingdom of God.
    Ephesians 5:5 says that:
    “For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”
    So, basically, no man who ever has an impure thought goes to heaven? Must be pretty sparse up there.
    1 Timothy 1:10 just refers to those who break the rules of God being lawbreakers. Way to take a quote out of context.
    Hebrews 12:16?
    “See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.”
    Yeah – not much point there.
    I’m starting to think you just did a search for ‘sexually immoral’ and copied down all the results, since these don’t help your point at all. I’m sure you get my point.
    After looking through all your quotes, all they refer to is the ‘sexually immoral’. NOWHERE does the bible say that gays or lesbians or bisexuals are sexually immoral.
    Look, if you want to play by the bible’s rules, realize that those rules are two thousand years old.
    So go ahead – quote those passages. But if you’ve ever had a single impure thought, count yourself among the ranks of the ‘sexually immoral’.

    And finally, if you haven’t had enough yet…
    Asserting that equality is the work of the ‘thought police’ is honestly quite moronic.
    Let’s try something.
    Assume for one moment that Jesus had said that gays were just fine by him.
    Would you still feel uneasy about children being taught that homosexuals exist, and we’re not going back into the closet? Would you still rant and rave against that which is different?

    Or we can shove those homos back in the closet where they came from, go back to subjugating the Jews and having slaves, and hating people for who they are.
    Such a bright future.

  2. Hi teenageprophet!

    Thanks for your comment. I don’t have a lot of time right now to respond to each of your points. But I’d point you to another blog entry of mine for discussion of some of your points:
    https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/07/30/christ-did-speak-out-against-homosexuality/

    I suggest reading the comments, as I have an ongoing dialog there. I’m not trying to ignore you, I’ll try to answer your points in a later comment.

    As for if God said men having sex with men or women having sex with women was ok, then I’d have no problem with it.

  3. Hmm, that’s an interesting series of quotes. Honestly, though, I have difficulty finding anything (outside of Romans 1, but I’ll get to that in a moment) that supports Jesus speaking out against homosexuality. Those two quotes (Matthew 15:18-20 and Mark 7:20-23) seem only to say that it’s important to repress your baser urges.

    Now, onto Romans 1. Firstly, Jesus didn’t write the epistle, so let’s not assume that this reflects Jesus’ opinions, or even those of anyone other than Paul.

    OK, let’s go on assuming God says that homosexuality is bad – a sin, even. But so is heterosexuality. Given that, as you said, your wife homeschools your kids (emphasis mine), it’s probably fair to say you’ve had some sexually immoral thoughts of your own, right?

    A friend once told me a statistic – the bible admonishes gay sex six times, but heterosexual sex three hundred and sixty-two times.

    If it’s becoming more like Christ that matters towards getting to heaven, why don’t I hear ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ more often?

    Also, the fact is, it’s not fully established that Jesus was Straighty McHetero either. Honestly, the bible is FULL of homoeroticism. I’ll give you some passages if you want, but I’m sure you know they’re there as well.

    Oh dear, I do ramble on… anyways, back to Romans 1.
    If ‘indecent acts’ can be taken to mean premarital sex, which it often is in interpretations, and the biblical punishment for premarital sex is death, then why does that passage condemn homosexuality?

    And finally, if we listen to Leviticus, a man lying with another man as he would a woman is a sin.
    But lesbians are fine, right?

    (bonus points if you don’t use the word ‘porneia’ in your response, since I’m not entirely sure you know what you’re going on about there.)

  4. HI teenageprophet!

    I thought I’d take the time to address your points in your comment.
    “I have to say that I don’t really see your logic.”

    What part did you not understand? I believe schools should teach children knowledge and logic, not indoctrinate them. I believe it is the place of the parents to train children in morals, and whether or not homosexual sex is a good thing falls under the heading of morals.

    “Those bible verses you cited – sure, one or two make reference to homosexuality, but only in the context of condemning it at the same time as heterosexuality.”

    Actually, I think you will find all the verses I cited use the term Porneia or Pornos in the original Greek language. Pornos was a more specific term than Porneia, much like homosexual is a general term (though it ususally refers to males, it often is used for people of both genders) and lesbian is a specific term which refers to women. These terms were used to indicate illicit, or unlawful, sex as defined by what the Jews knew at the time of the writing of the New Testament. This would mean they refer to the sexual and marriage practices identified by God in Leviticus 18, 20, and in Deuteronomy 22. THat would include various homosexual and heterosexual sins.

    “I’m glad you didn’t mention Leviticus – that book only applies to priests anyways, so it’s a shoddy argument.”

    Actually, if you read it, it applies to all Jews, that is to say all descendants of Abraham. According to Paul, believers in Christ are descendants of Abraham, since the promise was not one of relating to blood, but to belief (Romans 4:9-25).

    “I’m a bisexual transsexual girl, but I find it hard to believe that a loving, kind God such as the one you claim to believe in would prefer your hateful rhetoric to mine.”

    Dear woman, you might find it hard to believe, but God, the creator, gets to set the rules of what is right and wrong. He did so in the Old Testament, and He did so in the New Testament.

    Please do not confuse people warning of danger with hateful. Hateful would be to disparage or denigrate. Hateful would be to look down upon someone. However, I’ve been there and done that. I don’t hate or fear anyone. You name the sin, and either me or my wife or both of us have done it, been involved with it, or known someone who has done it.

    When you see someone unaware of a danger, like a snake in the grass, you yell out a warning, “STOP! THERE’S A SNAKE THERE!” This is not hateful, but in fact is loving. Telling someone something they may not like to hear but is true none-the-less is loving. Of course, there are gentle and tactful ways of saying things, and there are rough and harsh ways of saying things – each of us are in a different place in how we communicate and how we perceive a message.

    ” Honestly, it’s amazing how so many people decide to pick and choose the parts of their religion that suit their own views.”

    I think you will find as I walk you through the points you made that all the verses I gave in my blog entry deal with sexual sin, which includes homosexuality. I try to develop a complete understanding of a topic before I decide what God has said regarding it. Sometimes I come to it with a prejudice, and sometimes not. In dealing with homosexual sex, I did not have a negative prejudice.

    “I’ll analyze your quotes one by one, shall I?”

    Yes! Lets do so together.

    “1 Corinthians 5:9
    “I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people”
    …this has nothing to do with homosexuality. In that time, ANYONE who had sex outside of marriage was sexually immoral, as well as masturbators, etc…
    Look, different time, OK?”

    Ok, I read your comment on this verse, lets look at what it really means.
    First, we need to look at 1 Cor 5:1. God starts out saying that there was immorality among the Corinthians of a kind not even the pagans did. But the term for immorality, in this case, is Porneia. According to the Greek lexicon, the definition for this is
    1. Illicit sexual intercourse
    a. adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals etc.
    b. sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
    c. sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mk. 10:11,
    metaph. the worship of idols
    2. of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols

    Now when you look at the context of this passage (a man ‘had’ his father’s wife – it could have been she was his father’s widow, or it could have been sex outside of marriage with her. Regardless, Lev 18, 20 speaks of this as incest), there is no question that pagan idolatry was even a question – he was not speaking of this. So it has to be illicit sex, as defined in the Old Testament.

    Now, with that in mind, we can address 1 Cor 5:9-11. The term is translated as ‘immoral persons‘, but the Greek word is Pornos. This word is defined in the Greek Lexicon as
    1. a man who prostitutes his body to another’s lust for hire
    2. a male prostitute
    3. a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse, a fornicator

    This is a continuation of what was spoken of in 1 Cor 5:1, so it is most likely referring to “a man who indulges in unlawful sexual intercourse”.

    “1 Corinthians 5:10
    Same thing again. Also irrelevant.
    1 Corinthians 5:11 tells people “to not even eat” with such a man who is sexually immoral. All fine and dandy, but what CLASSIFIES sexual immorality? That bit I can’t seem to find anywhere.”

    As I’ve shown, ‘sexually immoral’ speaks to those who commit the sexual acts God has previously said should not be done. The idea is that people who do what God has said not to do should not be in the church.

    “1 Corinthians 6:9 says that rapists, whether heterosexual or homosexual, don’t inherit the kingdom of God.”

    The term ‘sexually immoral’ (or ‘fornicator’ depending on the translation) is again Pornos. The term for ‘adulterer‘ is translated from the Greek term Moichos. THAT term actually means adulterer.
    1. an adulterer
    2. metaph. one who is faithless toward God, ungodly.

    In this same verse, Paul also uses the term ‘idolator‘, from the Greek term Eidololatres, which means
    1. a worshipper of false gods, a idolater
    a. used of any one even Christian, participant in any way in the worship of the heathen, esp. one who attends their sacrificial feasts and eats of the remains of offered victims
    2. a covetous man as a worshipper of Mammon

    Again in this same verse, Paul uses the term ‘effeminate’ or ‘homosexual offender’ depending on translation (from the Greek term Malakos), which means

    1. soft, soft to the touch
    2. metaph. in a bad sense
    a. effeminate
    1. of a catamite
    2. of a boy kept for homosexual relations with a man
    3. of a male who submits his body to unnatural lewdness
    4. of a male prostitute

    From the context, idolator means just that, while the term for ‘homosexual offender’ or ‘effeminate’ probably refers to a male prostitute, and ‘adulterer’ means exactly that.

    So from this, we know that the term Pornos can not be speaking of just an adulterer or idolator or homosexual prostitute. So it must be referring to the wider meaning of the word, someone who participates in illicit sex.

    “Ephesians 5:5 says that:
    “For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”
    So, basically, no man who ever has an impure thought goes to heaven? Must be pretty sparse up there.”

    The term used in Ephesians 5:3 for immorality is Porneia, referring to illicit sex. He also uses the word ‘impurity‘, which comes from the Greek Akatharsia. This means
    1. uncleanness
    a. physical
    b. in a moral sense: the impurity of lustful, luxurious, profligate living
    1. of impure motives

    The Greek term used in verse 5:5 for ‘impure‘ is Akathartos, which means
    1. not cleansed, unclean
    a. in a ceremonial sense: that which must be abstained from according to the levitical law
    b. in a moral sense: unclean in thought and life

    And then in verse 5:5, he used the terms Pornos, which probably refers to the more narrow definition of homosexual offender, since he first mentioned the more wider terms of Porneia and Akatharsia.

    “1 Timothy 1:10 just refers to those who break the rules of God being lawbreakers. Way to take a quote out of context.”

    But you are missing the fact that Paul defined some of what it means to be a breaker of God’s law: lawbreakers refers to those who do not have God’s law or people who go against it; rebels refers to those who will not be controlled; ungodly; sinners or irreligious; unholy; irreligious or profane or ungodly; those who kill their parents; murderers; IMMORAL meaning Pornos which if you recall will mean sexually immoral as defined by the levitical law; kidnappers or slave traders ; liars; and perjurers.

    So you see, this was not out of context. The verse refers to people who break the law in a variety of ways, including homosexual sex.

    “Hebrews 12:16?
    “See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son.”
    Yeah – not much point there.”

    Again, the sexually immoral (Pornos) refers to those who break the levitical law concerning sex, including homosexual sex.

    “I’m starting to think you just did a search for ’sexually immoral’ and copied down all the results, since these don’t help your point at all. I’m sure you get my point.”

    As I’ve shown, ‘sexually immoral’ refers to people who are immoral according to what God has said is moral – those who break the levitical law dealing with sex.

    “After looking through all your quotes, all they refer to is the ’sexually immoral’. NOWHERE does the bible say that gays or lesbians or bisexuals are sexually immoral.”

    Well, actually, it does. Porneia and Pornos both refer back to the levitical law and that includes homosexual sex (male and female).

    “Look, if you want to play by the bible’s rules, realize that those rules are two thousand years old.”

    Parts of the Bible are actually significantly older than that. God provided the Bible as a history of God’s interaction with mankind through the history of one tribe. It tells us who God is, what He has done, and what He wants from us and for us.

    “So go ahead – quote those passages. But if you’ve ever had a single impure thought, count yourself among the ranks of the ’sexually immoral’.”

    I’ve had more than a single impure thought. I’ve had many – more before I became a Christian than afterwards, but I still have them upon occasion. However, God provided a way to deal with our sins.

    The laws in the Old Testament laid out what God thinks is right and wrong, and provided punishment for breaking the law. The idea, according to Romans 3:19-26 and Galatians 3:19-25, was to show us that no one is perfect and to point us to our need for the righteousness that can only come from God Himself. According to Romans 3:23, everyone (probably speaking of anyone who knows the difference between right and wrong) has sinned. Romans 6:23 tells us we earn death through sinning, but. God provided this righteousness when He sent Jesus to suffer and die for our sins (Jn 3:14-18). To take advantage of this gift, we need to change from running our own lives and believe God to the point where it changes our lives (Acts 26:20; James 2:14-22). By having faith in Christ, we are brought to spiritual life; God provides the free gift of eternal life.

    “And finally, if you haven’t had enough yet…
    Asserting that equality is the work of the ‘thought police’ is honestly quite moronic.”

    Not really. If you read George Orwell, you will find the government had microphones and cameras everywhere and would monitor the people’s lives in every detail. No one could be trusted, as people would also turn each other in to the the thought police. The people were punished for thinking ‘wrong’, as defined by the government, not just for what they actually did. There was not a way out of said punishment, unlike what God has provided for us. Hate crime legislation is like that. Instead of punishing people for what they do wrong, it punishes for how people think. This is ‘thought police’ mentality.

    “Let’s try something.
    Assume for one moment that Jesus had said that gays were just fine by him.
    Would you still feel uneasy about children being taught that homosexuals exist, and we’re not going back into the closet? Would you still rant and rave against that which is different?”

    As I’ve said, I have no ill feelings toward homosexuals. I have more than a little experience in this area. As I’ve said, I doubt you could name a ‘sin’ that I, or my wife, have not done or been part of or known someone really well who did it.

    If God would say homosexual sex is good, then it would be fine with me.

    “Or we can shove those homos back in the closet where they came from, go back to subjugating the Jews and having slaves, and hating people for who they are.”

    Dear lady, there is no hate on my side, only love. It is not hate to tell someone they are in trouble if they continue going the way they are going.

    “Such a bright future.”
    The future is bright with faith in Christ. Otherwise, we are in for a sad awakening when God judges us.

    In love,
    WBMoore

  5. Hi again teenageprophet!

    “Hmm, that’s an interesting series of quotes. Honestly, though, I have difficulty finding anything (outside of Romans 1, but I’ll get to that in a moment) that supports Jesus speaking out against homosexuality. ”

    Well, even if we only used Romans 1, God wrote the Bible, using men such as Paul. It would still make plain how God feels about homosexuality.

    But as I showed in my previous comment, the Bible is replete with scripture dealing with verses which sexual immorality is not something God approves us and will judge us for – including homosexual sex.

    “Those two quotes (Matthew 15:18-20 and Mark 7:20-23) seem only to say that it’s important to repress your baser urges.”

    Actually, it does, but that includes ‘fornication’, which is translated from Porneia – this is sex outside the bounds of marriage between a husband and wife. ‘Sensuality’ is translated from Aselgeia and as one would imagine, means
    unbridled lust, excess, licentiousness, lasciviousness, wantonness, outrageousness, shamelessness, insolence.

    “Now, onto Romans 1. Firstly, Jesus didn’t write the epistle, so let’s not assume that this reflects Jesus’ opinions, or even those of anyone other than Paul.”

    Actually, according to the Bible, Jesus is God (John 5:17-19; Philippians 2:5-7) and God wrote the Bible (see my entry on who wrote the Bible), using various men such as Paul, each with his own style, language, audience, and purpose. So if something is said somewhere in the Bible, God said it. If God said it, then it reflects the thoughts of Jesus.

    “OK, let’s go on assuming God says that homosexuality is bad – a sin, even. But so is heterosexuality.”

    Actually, heterosexuality is only a sin outside of marriage. Marriage between a man and woman is the only condition in which sex between a man and woman is allowed (Genesis 2:24; Matthew 19:5; Mark 10:7).

    ” Given that, as you said, your wife homeschools your kids (emphasis mine), it’s probably fair to say you’ve had some sexually immoral thoughts of your own, right?”

    I’ve had immoral thoughts all my life, at the very least since I was a teen. Without faith in God through believing He sent Christ to suffer, die, and be resurrected (Luke 24:46-48; John 3:14-18; Jn 3:36; Acts 2:38-39; Acts 10:43; Ephesians 1:7), you are correct, we are doomed to suffer for what we have done (everyone is a sinner – Romans 3:23, and God said the price for sinning is death – Romans 6:23). But thanks be to God, I have forgiveness of sins because of faith in Christ. All of us can have that forgiveness, we only have to believe (John 3).

    “A friend once told me a statistic – the bible admonishes gay sex six times, but heterosexual sex three hundred and sixty-two times.”

    I have no idea, as I’ve never counted. But I CAN tell you that references to any sin is doing something God has said to not do – in terms of heterosexual sex, it can only be done in the confines of marriage between a man and woman.

    “If it’s becoming more like Christ that matters towards getting to heaven, why don’t I hear ‘love the sinner, hate the sin’ more often?”

    Its trusting in Christ that matters. This is evidenced through a changed life where one becomes more and more like Christ. Unfortunately, many people who go to church and call themselves Christian do not actually trust Christ. They do not really love God. They are often hypocrites. For them, church is a club, not a first aid training station, which is used to train people and help heal them and grow them so they can help others. From those who DO love God, you DO hear love the sinner and hate the sin.

    “Also, the fact is, it’s not fully established that Jesus was Straighty McHetero either.”

    Actually, God tells us in the Bible that Jesus was without sin (Hebrews 4:15).

    ” Honestly, the bible is FULL of homoeroticism. I’ll give you some passages if you want, but I’m sure you know they’re there as well.”

    Please do share them?

    “Oh dear, I do ramble on… anyways, back to Romans 1.
    If ‘indecent acts’ can be taken to mean premarital sex, which it often is in interpretations,”

    But it does not mean premarital sex. Look at Romans 1:23, people had exchanged something created for God. This was why in Romans 1:24, God gave them over in their lust to ‘impurity’ . This term comes from the Greek Akatharsia, which refers to being unclean – having broken the law. In verse 1:26, we see that was why God gave them over to shameful (or degrading, depending on translation) desires (or passions). God said even the women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. God said in the same way the men abandoned natural relations with women and became inflamed with lust for other men. It is in this context that ‘indecent’ is used. It means unseemly, shame. So you see, ‘indecent’ does not refer to premarital sex, but to homosexual sex.

    ” and the biblical punishment for premarital sex is death, then why does that passage condemn homosexuality?”

    Because the ‘indecent’ acts do not in fact refer to heterosexual premarital sex, but to homosexual sex.

    “And finally, if we listen to Leviticus, a man lying with another man as he would a woman is a sin.
    But lesbians are fine, right?”

    Actually, no. Romans 1 is quite clear that lesbian sex is ‘sinful’, ‘impurity’, ‘degrading’, ‘shameful’, ‘unnatural’.

    “(bonus points if you don’t use the word ‘porneia’ in your response, since I’m not entirely sure you know what you’re going on about there.)”

    Well, I’m sorry I did not get away with not using ‘porneia’ or ‘pornos’, so i did not get the bonus points.

    Well, hopefully you stayed with me to this point. I appreciate it.

    In Christ’s love,
    WBMoore

  6. There are many good reasons for parents to home school their children. The novel, The Twilight’s Last Gleaming On Public Education discusses the potential,challenges, and obstacles that currently litter the public education landscape in America. This intriguing, socially relevant, and enlightening story possesses many of the elements commonly found in just about every school system throughout the United States. You may view a portion of this fascinating story online by contacting the publisher at http://www.Xlibris.com, clicking on their Bookstore link, then Searching by title. You may also purchase a copy of this book via Amazon, Borders, or other book stores. Check it out for youself. Discuss it with your friends. See if you agree with the solutions proposed.

  7. […] 4:3; Revelation 2:21; Rev 9:21; Rev 14:8; Rev 17:2; Rev 17:4; Rev 18:3; Rev 19:2 (see https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/public-schooling-and-indoctrination/ for a discussion on these […]

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