Homosexual Sex is sin?

What follows is part of a conversation between myself and someone who wants to justify homosexual sex and marriage.

 

He said, “lev not all prohibitions were of themselves sins”

 

It is clear Lev 18:22 (“Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable”) is a prohibition.

 

Romans 1:24-32

24 Therefore God gave them over in the SINFUL DESIRES of their hearts to SEXUAL IMPURITY for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator – who is forever praised. Amen. 26 Because of this, God gave them over to SHAMEFUL lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for UNNATURAL ones. 27 In the same way the men also ABANDONED NATURAL RELATIONS WITH WOMEN and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed INDECENT acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

 

28 Furthermore, since they did not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God, he gave them over to a DEPRAVED MIND, TO DO WHAT OUGHT NOT TO BE DONE. 29 They have become filled with every kind of WICKEDNESS, EVIL, GREED AND DEPRAVITY. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice. They are gossips, 30 slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful; they invent ways of doing evil; they disobey their parents; 31 they are senseless, faithless, heartless, ruthless. 32 ALTHOUGH THEY KNOW GOD’S RIGHTEOUS DECREE THAT THOSE WHO DO SUCH THINGS DESERVE DEATH, THEY NOT ONLY CONTINUE TO DO THESE VERY THINGS BUT ALSO APPROVE OF THOSE WHO PRACTICE THEM.

 

There is nothing about shamebased lust – only sinful desire. The lust was not called shame based, but shameFUL lust – that of a man for a man and of a woman for a woman.

 

Notice that God called same gender sex detestable, sinful, sexual impurity, degrading, shameful, unnatural, and indecent. Even simple sexual desire between people of the same gender is sinful.

 

So yes, same gender sex is a sin – in Old and New Testaments

 

“malebed cannot mean homosexuality,”

 

What verse do you think says malebed?

 

“ because homosexual bonding of committed relationships that lead to marriage are of the fruit of the spirit. the spirit is not against itself”

 

You are inserting your desires into what Scripture actually says.

It is evident that the Bible calls homosexual sex something that ought not to be done, and evil and wicked. 

 

“are you saying that under the new covenent that we are under regulation. that under the new covenent god has new laws that are not about violation of spirit,”

 

We are not to rely upon the Law for righteousness.  But the Law teaches us what is sin.

 

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin.

 

We are to be controlled by the Spirit, and the Spirit does not lead us to sin – we are to submit to the law of God, not that it saves us, but that it pleases God.

 

Romans 8:5-8

5 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; 7 the sinful mind is hostile to God. It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God.

 

In fact, we are to live lives as free of sin as possible.

Romans 6:1-2

1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer?

 

“AGAIN THE SPIRIT CANNOT BE AGAINST ITSELF”

 

And again, the Spirit of GOD will not contradict GOD.  God said homosexual sex is a sin in both the Old and New Testament. But other spirits certainly do contradict God all the time.

 

“homosexuals like heterosexuals worship and turn to god.”

 

Paul was very clear about the need to repent from sexual immorality.

2 Corinthians 12:21
I am afraid that when I come again my God will humble me before you, and I will be grieved over many who have sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual sin and debauchery in which they have indulged.

 

Repenting does not mean continuing to sin – it means turning from sin and turning TO God. Of course, the topic here is homosexual sex, but this applies to all sin – we are to strive to live holy lives, leaving our sin behind – regardless of what that sin is (for a homosexual, this would mean leaving behind homosexual sex; for a drunkard, it means leaving behind getting drunk).

 

“as believers in christ their is nothing we of ourselves apart from christ can do to make ourselves holy. it is christ who lives in us that makes us holy. and it is our faith in him that that allows for him to live in us.”

 

It IS Christ who makes us holy, IF WE REPENT. But if we do not repent, we are not holy – we fool ourselves.

 

“that is if homosexuality is a sin which it isnt. THE SPIRIT CANNOT BE AGAINST ITSELF”

 

You and Scripture do not agree. God has declared homosexual sex a sin. I suggest you repent from sin and turn to God.

 

(about John 14:21-24)

“your interpretation is that if one obeys his commands and follows his teaching he loves christ and the father………………….NOI!!!!!!!!!! there can be a million reasons to follow something none of which is about love. RATHER it is if you love me ………………..you will obey my command and follow my teaching.”

 

But Christ made it clear, if you love Him, you will obey Him. If you do not love Him, you will not obey Him.

 

“to fulfill the first commandment requires fulfilling the second, FIRST, that is why the 2nd is called the greatest”

 

You just contradicted Christ Himself. Christ said the greatest commandment is “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.”

 

Matthew 22:36-27

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37Jesus replied: “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

 

 

“again HOW DOES THE ESSENCE OF HOMOSEXUALITY COME AGAINST THE 2ND COMMANDMENT.?”

 

Homosexual sex goes against both the first commandment and the second. As I have already shown. But I will succinctly reiterate: By choosing sinful sex over God’s word, you show you do not love God, NOR the person you choose to have sex with.

 

“how does homosexuality come against loving your brother. homosexual living and marriage is of the fruit of the spirit in the same way that heterosexuality is . what is in your head, does not negate the reality of the spirit, for which YOU HAVE NO WITNESS. THE SPIRIT DOES NOT COME AGAINST ITSELF.”

 

No one led by the Spirit of God will think that homosexual sex is acceptable to God in any circumstance. God has declared it sin. The Holy Spirit, being God, does not contradict God.

 

“homosexuals believe and have faith in christ their savior and are saved.”

 

Christ is the source of eternal salvation for those that obey Him – but people who choose to sin rather than leave a live of sin (whether that be homosexual sex, adultery, drunkenness, or some other life of sin) do not obey Him.

 

“your understanding of what is sin is merely in your head because you have no witness to substaniate the REALITY OF THE SPIRIT. “

 

You are wrong. I have the word of God, and Holy Spirit, being God, does not contradict God. God said a man is not to lie with a man as if with a woman.

 

“homosexual committed marriages are of the fruit of the spirit in the same way heterosexual marriages are.THE SPIRIT DOES NOT COME AGAINST ITSELF”

 

They might or might not look similar, but since God has made clear that homosexual sex is a sin, and that a man is to marry a woman, and that a woman is to marry a man, homosexual sex and marriage are not of God.

 

“a child of god is anyone within whom christ lives, anyone who has faith in him as their savior”

 

But if they have said faith, they will REPENT, that is to say, they will leave their lives of sin.

 

“anyone who is homosexual has the same oppurtunity as anyone heterosexual to to become a child of god…………………..thru faith in christ.”

 

Remember, the command is to repent and turn to God. Paul said we need to prove our repentance – there MUST be evidence of turning from sin to God. Continuing to practice homosexual sex is evidence of the contrary.

 

“what determines what is a sin is not what is in your head but thru the witness of the reality of the spirit.”

 

According to Scripture, it is GOD who determines what is sin. And GOD said homosexual sex is a sin.

 

“jesus’s words THAT SAY we can “you will recognize them by their fruit””

 

No, I have held it in mind very clearly, because if you leave sin behind to worship God, then you will show godly fruit.  But if you do not leave your sin behind, you will show worldly fruit. Even pagans can be nice and “loving” as the world knows it. But this is not love as defined by God.

 

“does not galation delineate the fruit?”

 

Let us look at what God said in Galatians concerning fruit:

 

Galatians 5:16-25

16 So I say, LIVE BY THE SPIRIT, AND YOU WILL NOT GRATIFY THE DESIRES OF THE SINFUL NATURE. 17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.  19 THE ACTS OF THE SINFUL NATURE ARE OBVIOUS: SEXUAL IMMORALITY, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.  22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, FAITHFULNESS, 23 gentleness and SELF-CONTROL. Against such things there is no law. 24 THOSE WHO BELONG TO CHRIST JESUS HAVE CRUCIFIED THE SINFUL NATURE WITH ITS PASSIONS AND DESIRES. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.

 

IF we claim to live by the Spirit, we will NOT gratify sinful desires. The acts of the sinful nature includes sexual immorality – which is a category of sexual sin including homosexual sex. We are to be faithful to GOD. We are to be self-controlled and not sin.

 

By choosing homosexual sex over what God has said, you show yourself not being faithful and self-controlled, but living by the sinful nature.

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20 Responses

  1. You’re absolutely right! Homosexual behavior is a sin. The Bible makes it clear. Isn’t homosexual behavior a part of other sins in Romans 1:28-31? This is another place showing that if not homosexual behavior but at least the rest of their behavior breaks the command of loving your neighbor as yourself.

    “And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are deserving of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.”

    • “Isn’t homosexual behavior a part of other sins in Romans 1:28-31?”

      It is part of the category/type of sin known as sexual immorality, mentioned in the verse you asked about. By wanting, as well as acting upon the desire, something God has said to not do, people show they desire their pleasures more than God. They show a distinct lack of love for God by not obeying God.

  2. Well said, WB

    • Thanks. To me, homosexual sex is no different than any other sin God has mentioned in the Bible. We’re all sinners. The trick is to recoginze the truth, agree with God, turn away from the sin, turn to God, and show the repentance through one’s life.

  3. My own argument here is not if homosexuality is a sin or not because the side of that fence you stand is determined by you beliefs and religion. Your faith in your god does not allow room for tolerance of outside belief systems. Which is fine why should you have to incorporate so called pagan ideology into you established religious organization. My problem here is with the attempts so called Christians and religious members are making to pass laws against these outside belief systems. You do not have to agree with or believe in Allah but you cannot pass laws to prohibit the gathering of Muslims. How is it that there should be laws about the joining of a man and another man who love each other.

  4. You have misconceptions concerning Christianity and its beginnings. It is far from pagan, by definition.

    As for passing laws concerning homosexual sex, etc., We all vote based upon our belief systems. It is fact that the allowing of marriage and the family to be diluted by selfishness has been bad for society.

    For more, please see my post:
    https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/utilitarian-perspective-on-sex-outside-of-marriage-cohabitation-abortion-and-divorce/

  5. I think you may have misunderstood, I was not calling your religion pagan I was say that you should not have to incorporate pagan ideology into your religion because of a law, just as you should not be prohibited from gathering because of a law just as I should not be prohibited from getting married because of a law.

  6. Thanks for clearing that up. You are correct, I misunderstood what you were saying.

    However, what I said stands. The weakening of marriage and the family – particularly in the area of morals – has been bad for society. I fully expect the weakening to continue up to and including the point where it will likely be illegal to recognize things God called sin as sin. This does not mean it is good for society or the individual. It will allow people to feel good about themselves for doing whatever they want to do, but it will be the downfall of society.

  7. I am sorry but I disagree. I do not see anyway where same sex marriage is bad for society.

  8. I appreciate your position though we disagree.

  9. just a word of comfort for theforeverfallen, in John 15, it says there “love one another”

    [no more, no less]

  10. You are correct, we are to love one another. But we are also to love God.

    In Matthew 22:37-39, it states:
    37 Jesus replied: ” ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’

    Then in 1 John 5:2-3, it states:
    2 This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands. 3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome.

    We are also to not cause others to sin, as we see in 1 Corinthians 10:32 (see https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/the-need-for-belief-love-and-obedience/), which states:
    Do not cause anyone to stumble, whether Jews, Greeks or the church of God

    In fact, we see what love for someone else is in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (see https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/08/22/what-is-love/):
    4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

  11. To love is to be closer to god, to be closer to god is to love.

    The problem here that I see “Do not cause anyone to stumble” by being christian and denying others the same legal rights as you enjoy you are causing the others to not want to be christian and thus they “stumble”

    • Being Christian and encouraging behavior God has said is wrong is causing someone to stumble. It is not causing you to stumble when someone tells you there is a cliff you are about to step over. It is not causing you to stumble if someone tells you that if you step in front of a fast moving car that you will be hurt or possibly killed. You are free to ignore the warnings; you are free to disagree. You are free to choose to believe God or not, but if you believe in a god that will let you decide what is right or wrong and will not judge you for what He has said is wrong, then you do not believe in the God of Abraham. If you want to believe in something else, feel free – but God demands love, exemplified through obedience.

  12. We are talking about calling somebody less than human because of who they love, not warning them they are about to get hit by a buss. You cause people who would be christians to turn away because they see you judge people negatively because they fall in love with someone of the same gender. You are causing others to “stumble” because of your own inability to love.

    • Beloved, no one here has called anyone less than human. You are just as human as I am. If you did not know, all of us are sinners. We are all to be judged. I’ve been bisexual. My wife was a lesbian. We understand. More than that, we love. I love people so much I run the risk of alienating them so they can know the truth. When I came to understand that God loved me, even though I was (and still am) a sinner, I came to understand a little about what real love is really about. God loves you in the same way.

      God loves you so much that He sent His Son to suffer and die to pay the penalty for you sin – much like a judge would pay the fine for his own son’s or daughter’s speeding ticket. We are all guilt of sin – we’re human and its part of the human condition. But we also all have a chance to be with God. He provided that way – faith in His Son. If we trust in Him, if we love Him, we are forgiven. But if we do so, we will also obey Him out of love for Him; it is an expression of the love we have for Him.

      All of us are fallen sinners. All of us have the opportunity to be saved from the penalty of our sins. Not all of us will take God up on His offer of the free gift of salvation. The choice is yours.

  13. “I love people so much I run the risk of alienating them so they can know the truth.”

    Am I reading that right? You love me so much you risk alienating me? Hmmm a little less of that kind of love might work out better for everyone.

    • It is more important for you hear the truth, even if you choose to reject it, than for me to make you feel good about sin. Love does what is best for the other – not what makes them feel good, but what they need.

      Most relationships are self-serving. However, love is a matter of not being self-serving. Rather than worry about whether you like me or not, I run the risk of alienating you because my love for God and you pushes me to tell you the truth so you have the chance to turn away from the cliff you are walking towards.

  14. Love is never about alienating anyone. It is not about passing laws to force them into exile. I mean while we are at it we might as well pass a law that states Mormons cannot go to church because church is a sacred establishment meant only for the one true gods children. Muslims, Catholics, Jews, etc should also not be aloud to practice their worship because worship is also sacred and meant only for the elite true followers of christ. This is America not heaven. We cannot pass laws that forbid the three basic rights of any Americans, Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. I should be allowed to do anything with my life as long as it does not, stop others from living, take away others liberties or hinder others in their own reasonable pursuit of happiness. The passing of laws banning gay marriages has nothing to do with sin and everything to do with denying liberties to Americans who have just as much right as any other American.

  15. Love is not about alienation, but love DOES sometimes alienate people. Its unfortunate, because it is probably one of the things the person who loves wants to do the least. Part of love is helping people come to know how to live healthy productive meaningful lives.

    You are free to do what you want. I am free to do what I want. But those things have consequences. Some of the consequences are good and some of them are bad, whether for us or for others, and sometimes both.

    You have decided what the parameters are for you being able to do what you want. Others have decided different parameters. But for most people, those parameters are based upon their own fallible standards of morality. These are subjective standards, and flawed. A few people base their standards of morality on what God has said is right or wrong. His standards, whether you like them or agree with them or not, are not fallible or subjective or changing.

    You are free to do what you think is best, as I am. I pray you choose God, but you are free to make your own choice – which is just as God wants it.

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