Some people claim the apostles disobeyed Christ and God had to compromise His plan

Some people have written of that the disciples disobeyed Christ, trying to use the fact that the disciples did not understand how Christ was to be raised again on the third day and so did not believe Jesus was alive (Mark 16:11 and Luke 24:11) when the women told them. This was before the Holy Spirit had been given to them and before God had opened the scriptures to them. It is to be expected that they had difficulty because of their lack of the Holy Spirit and understanding. This does not indicate disobedience.

They further wrote, “I know that James the elder contradicted the Lord on a few major points, he even led Paul astray in Jerusalem. Yet these things are written clearly in the Bible… how come God did not rebuke them then?”

God did not rebuke them because they did not contradict the Lord, nor did they lead Paul astray. These people claim the apostles disobeyed Christ, but except where Christ rebuked them, they did not. To teach they did is to teach error.

I will try to explain this way: I tell people I live in a certain city because the area is known by that name, but in fact I live in a small town outside that city. Only people who are familiar with the area would know where it is. So when I speak to people who do not know the area, I tell them the name of the of city (or sometimes I tell them the name of the town and mention it is near the big city). But when I tell people who DO know the area, I tell them the name of the small town, knowing no further explanation is needed.

In the same way, Bethsaida was in the direction of Capernaum from where they were, and it is not unreasonable to think they would land at Gennesaret while on the way to Bethsaida. This is not disobedience or error on the parts of the disciples. Certainly if they were in error, Jesus (who was with them)  would have corrected them and they would have landed where He wanted them to. Since He did not, it is safe to say they did exactly as He wanted. As far as the wind blowing strongly, rather than say it was the Holy Spirit against them (Matthew 14:22-34; Mark 6:45-54; John 6:18-21), why not think rather that it was God giving yet another opportunity for Christ to show His power to help grow their faith and understanding? We see this is the case in Matthew 8:23-27, where Jesus and the disciples were together in the same boat.

They further wrote, “did not james tell paul that the gentiles should not drink of blood? contradiction to Jesus much”.

Again, this is not a contradiction. Jesus, in John 6:51, when He said His body was living bread was speaking hyperbole, using a physical example of a spiritual truth. The same is true when He said a few verses later that He would raise up who ever eats His flesh and drinks His blood. He will raise those to heaven who rely upon Him as we rely upon bread and water. Jesus spoke in the same way in John 4:10 and John 7:38, where He spoke of living water flowing within believers. He was speaking spiritually, figuratively. But James and the other elders and apostles in Acts 15:29 were giving some simple instructions to new believers, some of whom would have come from religious backgrounds where drinking blood was part of religious worship. As such, they reiterated the provision against drinking animal blood – this was a literal physical concern, so he was not speaking hyperbole. Thus, there is no contradiction. See my other posts on this matter for a more detailed explanation of the Eucharist: “Transubstantiation” and “The Lord’s Supper: Eucharist And Wine – Body And Blood Of Christ or Analogy?“.

There was no disobedience in the apostles part that was not rebuked by Christ Himself. God did not have to compromise (change) His plan to take into account any unforeseen events.

God’s plan does not change (Psalm 33:11). God’s plan includes everything, including faith and lack of faith, obedience and lack of obedience, understanding and lack of understanding, even including the disobedience of Adam and Eve (Proverbs 16:4; Ephesians 1:11). God had it all planned before the beginning of time (Titus 1:2) and it will come to pass (Isaiah 14:24-27; 19:12; 22:11; 23:9; 37:26; 46:10-11; Jeremiah 49:20; 50:45). To claim that God had to compromise His plan because of disobedience (especially when there was none), or anything else, is to say God changes His plan. This goes against scripture. If someone teaches what is contrary to scripture, then they are not guided by the Holy Spirit, for God does not lie (Numbers 23:19; Titus 1:2). In fact, it is impossible for God to lie (Hebrews 6:18).

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20 Responses

  1. […] a comment » A friend of the Blog, Wb Moore, enters rather well into the debate with those of Edmon Kwan’s doctrine of disobedience. Some […]

  2. Hi WBMoore, thankyou for apologising, that was very commendable of you.

    I just want to leave you with a simple point, pretty straight forward and uncomplicated. Jesus said and did alot of things, which would have filled all the libraries in the world; God could have made it easy for us and given all the libraries in the world, but he just gave us the Bible. Everything in the Bible is so important, because we can learn so much from it. We can learn how men make mistakes and disobey God, we can learn from Jesus Christ himself. But who is to say God did not leave a few things out here and there just to see if we can connect the dots? after all he has given us the Bible, not libraries.

    So, if Jesus Christ himself says those who follow him, and reside in him and he in them, who believe etc. will experiance certain results in their practice… then how come the world is so absent of what Jesus Christ himself said should happen? Is it maybe that we did err somewhere along the way and are off on the wrong track? alternatively, everything Jesus Christ said that should be present IS present at the Holy Spirit’s Workshops.

    I dunno, I guess I can only speak from my own personal experiance and testimony… and well IF Polycarp is right in saying that we are false-prophets because we are able to restore the sight to the blind, heal the sick, drive out demons, speak in tongues, and prophesy that Jesus Christ lives and is returning soon. Then I guess i’d rather be who I am and do what I do because as far as I am concerned, the results tell me i’m following Jesus Christ correctly. I even raised my dead dog to life for another 2 months, how many people can say they’ve confronted death? Yet even after all this, I still find Christians (and that matter religious people) wierd. I think it has something to do with perception, I’ve gone beyond faith becomes i’ve come to know.

    So my simple uncomplicated point is, if we experiance the things consistently and increasingly just as Jesus Christ said believers/disciples should (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit). Then maybe we are doing something right.

    In all honestly, i’m dis-illusioned with all christian churches/sects etc. Too much doctrines, theologys, bickering, bitterness, and lack of results. I’ve been to so many churches where there will be a paraplegic, or a blind man, or someone suffering from the smallest illness. No one bothers to pray/lay hands on them, and if they do, it becomes an act. Then when no result appears, it’s the victims lack of faith. If I can’t heal someone, I rebuke myself, repent and cry out to the Lord for further discipline.

    The greatest thing I’ve learnt in life, is that no matter how high I reach, how knowledgable I become, I am still a student; yet when people attack the truths I know, I am defending from a point of truth, and they are attacking from a point of theory. I wonder, what truths do you know? (if you don’t mind me asking)

  3. Hi Darren.

    Thank you. I was in the wrong. There was nothing else to do. Besides, it was not loving and I DO try to be loving, even if I fail sometimes.

    I agree with your idea that the Bible does not contain everything that has ever happened. And sometimes we are to connect the dots. This is how we get doctrine, by putting together verses in a logical manner that present a common idea. I’m not sure if God did it to see if we can connect the dots, as I think God knows what we will do (1 Corinthians 2:7).

    “how come the world is so absent of what Jesus Christ himself said should happen? Is it maybe that we did err somewhere along the way and are off on the wrong track? ”

    I think it might be a number of things:
    1) It may be that not EVERYONE who works for God has the same results – not all are apostles, or teachers, or prophets. In the same way, we see in scripture and history that not everyone had the same results. We do not see of Timothy or Titus doing miracles. Yet they both worked with Paul and shared the Gospel and taught and even appointed elders.
    2) It may be that many people HAVE gone astray. I think the philosophy that teaches that ‘magic thinking’ is for barbarians has invaded the church members, along with the rest of the industrial world. Many believers seem to have an erroneous idea that God changed and quit interacting with the world after the death of Christ. This affects people’s expectations and faith. As such, they do not expect to see miracles and so do not, and question hypercritically anything that resembles a miracle, and condemn anyone who claims to do them or have had them done in their presence.
    3) It may be that many in the church bodies are not saved AND have been infected with the above philosophy. And they are actually blinded by satan to what God does and condemn those who are used by God to perform miracles.
    4) It may be that not all who seem to perform miracles are working for God, but are actually working for satan. This would allow the enemy to spotlight certain ‘ministries’ and then have them basically blown apart to show that people who do miracles are “fake”.

    ” IF Polycarp is right in saying that we are false-prophets because we are able to restore the sight to the blind, heal the sick, drive out demons, speak in tongues, and prophesy that Jesus Christ lives and is returning soo”

    i can not speak for Polycarp, but I do not think that is what he said. My understanding of what he said is those things are not proof you are teaching the Bible accurately.

    “I still find Christians (and that matter religious people) wierd.”

    *chuckle* hehe. Me too.

    ” I think it has something to do with perception, I’ve gone beyond faith becomes i’ve come to know.”

    I think this is where for many people, their lack of experience with the spiritual realm makes them believe that what they have experienced to date in that area is all there IS to experience in that area. That is to say, that people’s lack of experience blinds them to miracles. But as I’ve said, just because miracles occur does not necessarily indicate someone is teaching Truth (Matthew 7:23).

    “f we experiance the things consistently and increasingly just as Jesus Christ said believers/disciples should (under the guidance of the Holy Spirit). Then maybe we are doing something right.’

    Maybe you are, and maybe you are not. I do not know anything about your workshop. I merely commented on what you and your father had written on Polycarp’s post. But while miracles may or may not be being done in your ministry, and while it may or may not be through the power of the Holy Spirit (and as I said, I do know nothing of your ministry), Christ himself said that many who do miracles in His name will be told He never knew them.

    Matthew 7:22-23

    22 Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    Not only must there be evidence of faith, but there actually must be faith. We must not teach things that go against the word of God. Sometimes people purposefully teach things falsely to make themselves more important or more powerful. But sometimes we simply teach things erroneously, simply because of what WE have been taught. But when it is pointed out to us, we must pray, submit our will and pride to God and be willing to let God lead us, and if God points out we are wrong, we must change from teaching error and teach truth.

    I am disillusioned with churches/denominations/sects as well. I think so many times people want to incorporate worldly ideas into church instead of loving God and loving their neighbors and letting God provide the increase.

    I think if someone is healed, it is because 1) GOD wanted them to (whether He allows it or causes it to happen), 2) the person being healed had sufficient faith to be healed (Acts 14:8-10), 3) the person being used to do the healing had sufficient faith to be used by God in this way (although this is not always necessarily the case either, as I know of cases of people being healed where the one doing the praying had no expectation of them being healed).

    “I am still a student”

    I love this statement. This is how I feel about myself as well. God keeps growing me in areas I had not expected to grow.

    What truths do I know? wow. such an open ended question. I know God (imperfectly). I know God loves us. I know God knows me (perfectly), I know God sent Jesus to suffer and die for our sins, that who ever believes might have eternal life. I know that God is unchanging. I know that God demands obedience in spirit and action. I know God is loving and powerful enough to leave us a written record of His interaction with mankind through one tribe, so we might learn who He is and what He has done and what He will do, and what He wants for us and from us. But there is so much more I still do not know. There is still so much more I need to learn.

  4. Brilliant!

    I will have to get back to you when I get home from work, as I am in Australia this will probably mean you’ll be asleep at the time!

    But no worries there, I wish to encourage you so much! you are on the right track!

  5. Wb,

    You are right – that is not what I said. Darren, I stated that no amount of miracles prove a man as a follower of Christ. And I quoted,

    “Not every one who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.’ (Matthew 7:21-23 RSVA)

    A ‘miracle’ neither makes a man righteous nor false – just look at the miracles of Pharaoh’s priests. The only thing that falsifies a man is the doctrine that he preaches and teaches.

    Remember, Moses commanded Israel, that even if a prophet arises to command a sign and wonder, if the words of the man does not line up with the Word of God, then do not follow that man.

    and the sign or wonder which he tells you comes to pass, and if he says, ‘Let us go after other gods,’ which you have not known, ‘and let us serve them,’
    (Deuteronomy 13:2 RSVA)

  6. g’day..thanks for your advice to my son..as i just wrote to poly..we are not claiming the apostles disobeyed..no, the Bible records their disobedience, I just happen to have read it, and the point we are making is this..if there are cracks in the building,then the foundations must be faulty..does the church have cracks? So I have gone and checked the foundations, they are sound but not perfect..hence the cracks, but it can be fixed, and the solution that has worked for us is..going back to listening to Jesus’ words that are written, practicing Jesus’ words that are written and learning to recognise the voice of the Holy Spirit . And the unpleasant truth is that the twelve did not go the bethsaida, but wanted to go to Capernaum and ended up in Genereset…close, but not precise.Now,it is not wise to follow those who have shown a tendency to not do as commanded,even though we have to, because they are the Lord’s choice..but that does not mean we can’t follow the Lord directly first,and instead of following the apostles,walk with them following the Lord. to me that’s a safer option.Rome would certainly disagree..that would end their popish authority.No miracle makes a man of God..but if you can’t do what you are supposed to be able to do, you are just as bad..a believer who can’t heal the sick, drive out demons, speak in tongues is worse than an imposter who can..because it is when the disciples can’t do what they are supposed to do, that charlatans can come in and decieve.Any local church that can get their sick healed and delivered within themselves cannot fall prey to the signs and wonders decievers..any local fellowship where everyone knows their scriptures well cannot be decieved either. Christians I meet everyday are disillusioned because their local church can’t meet their needs, so the travelling circuses have their audiences.This is what I have found in the gospels and acts, the eleven did not always do exactly what they were told when they were told, like all of us..and that is the problem…so what is the answer? Judge and Condemn? No, repent and forgive..and keep practicing until God grants the success.By the way, false prophets are known for their lack of fruits..can a false prophet raise up a son, so zealous for Jesus with love? saleh .Dr,Ed, a false prophet to some,a footstool to others.

  7. Hi Edmond.

    The Bible DOES record the disciples doing things Jesus did not want, but not where you claim. And the Bible records Jesus correcting the disciples, but no such rebuke or correction is recorded for the incident to which you are referring. As I’ve shown in the post above, Jesus was WITH the disciples. If they had done something wrong, He would have certainly corrected them, as He had in the past. So your entire premise is incorrect. The disciples did what God wanted when God wanted. Had Jesus needed to correct them because they landed at Gennesaret, He certainly would have done so. But the story we see in the trip may or may not have been the complete story of the trip. It does not appear to be the complete story. The story stopped at Gennesaret to allow the telling of another story. But you are reading something into scripture that is not there when you say the discipled disobeyed Jesus.

    You wrote, “No miracle makes a man of God..but if you can’t do what you are supposed to be able to do, you are just as bad..”

    We agree about this at least. Miracles do not make someone a man of God and you should be doing what God wants you to do.

    But as I said, not everyone has the gift of healing. Not everyone has the gift of tongues. Not everyone has the gift of knowledge. Etc., etc., etc. There is no biblical evidence that each and every true follower of Christ is to do miracles. To suggest that everyone is supposed to do miracles is not teaching truth.

    People are disillusioned, at least in part, because of people who claim the Bible teaches one thing, but when they actually look into it, they see the opposite. People are disillusioned because the charlatans come in with miracles that are not of God.

    I agree the answer is repent and forgive those who repent.

  8. I commend you wbmoore firstly for showing forgiveness and love for a fellow disciple ( Darren Kwan)
    For Jesus commanded His disciples to do so, John 13:34 “A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    John 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another”.
    Mat 6:14 For if you let men have forgiveness for their sins, you will have forgiveness from your Father in heaven.
    Mat 6:15 But if you do not let men have forgiveness for their sins, you will not have forgiveness from your Father for your sins.

    Secondly for having enough faith to use your name.(and the Kwans for using theirs too!)

    What do you make of the statement that Jesus made after His resurrection in Mar 16:17 “And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
    Mark 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.”
    Why do you think that these things are not done by most of us, do we not believe or is it simply a lack of practice?

    I too repent of my sins, shortcomings, accusingness, judgementalism, and lack of faith and forgive the sins of those who also do so.
    GraHam

  9. Thank you GraHam,

    You ask, “What do you make of the statement that Jesus made after His resurrection in Mar [16:17-18]?”

    I think these are exactly the signs provided by at least some of the disciples (many in Acts 2, Peter in Acts 3:1-10 and Paul in Acts 14:8-10, Acts 16:18, and Acts 28:3-6 come to mind). It may be these signs were only for that time and place. However, I think it more likely that these signs are needed where ever the Holy Spirit needs to validate His message and messangers.

    But this does not mean everyone will do these things. I say this because Paul was quite clear that each of us have different gifts (Romans 12:5-8). I think that when/where God needs to manifest specific gifts for the growth or edification of the church, He does so.

    You asked, “Why do you think that these things are not done by most of us, do we not believe or is it simply a lack of practice?”. It may be that God has not thought there was a need for these gifts to be manifested. It may be there is a lack of faith in the believer and God is limiting Himself to our faith levels. It may be people’s faith has been damaged by the church or by charlatans posing as believers from God and then being exposed for what they are. It may be the philosophy of the world that “magical thinking is for barbarians” has invaded the church. It may be disobedience on the parts of some. I think it is more likely all the above.

    But just because someone manifests signs does not mean they are from God. Christ Himself said there would be many who would claim to have done miracles in His name and He will say He never knew them (Matthew 7:21-23).

  10. wb..the whole purpose of my ministry is to see if it is possible, to disciple a group of believers using only the Bible , until they so mature that they can be trusted by God as He trusts Jesus, so that the world will know that God sent Jesus and loves the belivers as he loves Jesus..that is, a fellowship at full power because they are fully trusted…seeing what the eleven failed to do, is just one of many things the Lord showed us on our journey..if I am in error, I will repent, and who is ever without error..but it is the scriptures that recorded that the eleven did not go to Galille that morning, but went later, just as they record the twelve were in the middle of the lake because they did not go to bethsaida as commanded but sought to go to Capernaum. Reading mathew by itself can be misleading..but reading all four accounts is revealing, and I didn’t see this for years, even though I try to read a bible a month. My desire to do miracles, as some would say comes from my compassion as a doctor who sees the short comings of modern medicine and the disgrace the church is suffering when it has to send the sick to hospitals instead of hospitals sending the sick to churches. Remember the woman with the issue of blood spent all her money on doctors and was no better. The church is powerless..and no one has the answer why..if seeking to find the answer, and reporting the errors of the elders as they are recorded is heresy, so be it. better to have tried to save a patient and make a mistake than to let the patient die because the forms (doctrines) are incorrect.As I extended the invite to poly..I extend it to you..I will be in manila in june conducting my first pastors only conference for this year, normally you cannot attend unless you are a pastor..but if you can come , please come..the details will be one our site once the venue in finalised. they are quite fun affairs..three days, eight hours a day, one speaker only, when the pastors are challenged on everything they teach and practice..from word of faith to calvinism. You see what I teach is vetted regularly before audiences consisting only of pastors from all denominations..the workshops are started by pastors who have vetted my teachings. The teachings themselves are only submiited to an audience of pastors so that their flocks are not contaminated if my teachings are toxic. so far..we have gone from a small conference of 20 pastors to 300 at the last ..all coming by word of mouth only..no advertisement..just one pastor recommending their friends.Saleh..and thanks for the blessing.Dr.Ed.

    • Hi Edmond.

      I pray God is continuing to enlighten you as He does me.

      It sounds as if you are saying you want to disciple people to the point where they always obey God. This is a lofty goal, but one no one can achieve, as Jesus is God and the only one who has ever fully obeyed without fault.

      But if I understand you, simply, you are saying you are trying to build disciples, and this is a good thing. I myself am called to evangelize and disciple others to the point where they do the same.

      I hear what you are saying about the apostles disobeying God, but you have not provided scriptural support for this. Without showing me in scripture what you see, I fail to see it. If God has shown you thins in scripture, then surely you can show others, using chapter and verse, the same thing. If you are so certain of the idea that the church should have begun in Galilee, that the disciples disobeyed God, and that God had to adjust His plan, I would think this is something you would have written something on. Please provide the scirptural basis for this belief.

      I think its wonderful to have compassion and want to help people. I understand you are sincere. I understand you do signs and wonders. Neither of these, however, are indications of whether you are teaching truth in the area of the disicples obeying or God having to “compromise” His perfect eternal all encompassing plan. As you know, we are all subject to being human. :) We all make mistakes. And as such, we are all learning (or at least should be). But I think we need to careful of doing the right thing in the wrong way, and teaching people God had to compromise His plan while attempting to build up disciples is laying a poor foundation.

      I appreciate the invitation. However, whether I can go would depend on God. I would love to attend another pastor’s conference, but God will have to provide for it and I have no such leading at this time. As for vetting, I appreciate the comment. But just because others have not noticed or corrected teaching does not mean said teaching is accurate. This is part of the benefit of not being involved in the heat of the moment discussions and/or teaching; it allows one time to reflect and research.

      May God bless you in a very specific way.

  11. wb..sorry for not replying sooner, but was busy preparing for the phillipines..a comment caught my eyes, that the Lord did not rebuke the eleven for their disobedience..but He did..Mark 16:14..”as they were eating he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after ha had risen”,If they had gone to Galilee as commanded than this rebuke would be out of place.However our friend “poly..” is right..there is no new gospel,no new revelation”.It is not good news that i bring..that is true, and there is nothing new to what I am teaching..it has been written in the Bible since it was first put togather.Dr.Ed..be blessed as you continue to listen to Jesus and follow him.

  12. Thanks Polycarp.

    I was really wanting Edmond to tell me where HE thinks they were commanded to go to Galilee, because I don’t see it.

    Matt 26:31-32 reads,

    31Then Jesus told them, “This very night you will all fall away on account of me, for it is written:
    ” ‘I will strike the shepherd,
    and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.’ 32 But after I have risen, I will go ahead of you into Galilee.

    Jesus did not TELL them to go to Galilee, but that the sheep would be scattered, and that Christ would go to Galilee ahead of the disciples. This seems to indicate that at least some of them WOULD go to Galilee (where many if not all were from), but does not mean they were ordered to do so.It is not evident they were told to go to Galilee in these verses (although it is certainly possible it was not recorded).

    We see in Matt 28:16-20 that they HAD been told by Jesus to go to a mountain in Galilee, and that they did so.

    16 Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17 When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

    But again, we see no evidence in Scripture of where or when Christ commanded the disciples to go to Galilee. We only see that 1) After Jesus arose, the sheep of the flock would be scattered, and that Jesus would go ahead of them to Galilee, 2) we are told they had been told to meet Jesus on a mountain in Galilee (to my knowledge, we do not have when/where this occurred in Scripture, nor when they were to go to meet Jesus – it may have been that they were told to do so when Jesus met with them in Jerusalem or at some other point), and 3) the disciples DID go meet Jesus in Galilee on the mountain as they had been instructed.

    This is important, because from my reading, the disciples were not told to go to Galilee when He died and they disobeyed, as I understand the Kwon family to teach. So unless I am shown in Scripture where the disciples were instructed and they disobeyed, then I have to believe the Kwon family are in error on this point.

  13. Hi Edmond.

    Actually, the person who asked that question of “[why did] God not rebuke them” was Darren Kwon. When I said that Christ did not rebuke them, I was referring to God not rebuking the disciples for contradicting Christ, because they did not contradict Him. You missed the part where I said, “These people claim the apostles disobeyed Christ, but except where Christ rebuked them, they did not. ” That is to say, Christ rebuked them for their disobedience, but there was no disobedience on the part of the disciples that was not rebuked.

    The particular verse you quoted tells us for what Christ rebuked the disciples: “their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen.” It was not for their having contradicted Christ.

    Help me here. In what verses were the disciples commanded to go to Galilee?

  14. WB, in Matthew 26.32, Christ speaks about going before the disciples to Galilee. Edmond will contend that the disciples did not go there – yet we learn in Matthew 28.16-20, that the Eleven did indeed go there.

    Further, I believe that he contends that the Church should be launched from there, yet we are told time and time again the importance of Jerusalem – from the Old Testament to the New, Zion is central.

    Of the key prophetic Scriptures, for me, concerning Christ (son of David) and the Church (Jerusalem) was given to Solomon –

    `Yet I have chosen Jerusalem, that My name may be there; and I have chosen David to be over My people Israel.’ (2Ch 6:6 NKJ).

    We find a connectivity throughout the Scriptures concerning that particular city. Nothing is mentioned of Galilee, only Jerusalem. Even in Rev. we find the importance of the New Jerusalem, and nothing about Galilee.

  15. WB, Thanks for changing the link above.

  16. I completely agree, Wb.

    I believe that it was a suggestion, or perhaps a ‘I know where you are going to go, so I’ll be there.’ type statement.

    We have to remember as well, that some of the disciples were from Galilee – so upon the death of their leader, it would be advantageous for people who are seemingly wanted by the authorities to find a safe place to hide.

  17. the women were sent back to the disciples by the angels with the message to go to Galilee, no one went. peter and john went to the tomb, and then went home.
    Then Jesus , Himself came and told the women..Mary first, and no one believed them and no one went to Galilee that morning.
    If they had gone to Galilee on resurrection morning, they would not have been shocked to see Him in Jerusalem that evening, when he first showed Himself to them , including His wounds.
    The gospel of Mathew gives the impression they went immediately to Galilee, but if they did, then it would have rendered the gospels of mark, Luke and John invalid, because the time sequence does not match.
    Just as the gospel of Mathew gives the impression that Jesus sent them into the middle of the lake, when in fact, Jesus only wanted to send them across the river.
    As for Bethsaida, Capernaum and Gennereset, the first is across the river from where the 5000 is fed, Capernaum is to the east along the shore of the lake, and Gennereset is even further east…..I don’t think, landing in Gennereset when you are sent to Bethesaida is a good excuse , that close enough is good enough..have a look at any map.
    it is now 2012, October..and the evidence that the apostles of Jesus Christ of the gospels of Mark, Mathew, Luke and John did not believe the news of the resurrection, disobeyed the command to go to Galilee and delayed the arrival of the Holy Spirit by not remaining in Jerusalem, but went fishing instead still stands.
    As for the recommendations of James, adopted by the Jerusalem council in Acts 15…they definitely brought the disciples back under the curse of the Law. Even Paul succumbed to their persuasions in the end, and so himself was imprisoned.
    As for false prophets and christs….only those who follow the Christ , born in Bethelem in the northern spring to a virgin named Mary, who had a step Father called Joseph, and half brothers and sisters…James, Joses, Jude, being some of their names will need to see these truths.
    Those who follow a different Jesus, especially the one who is born December 24th, in the northern winter, in Bethelem, whose mother Mary remained a virgin after his birth and who allows his believers to call other men,’Father’., need not concern themselves about these teachings.
    God bless one and all…follow your Christ, even as I follow mine.
    Dr.Ed, Christocrat.

    • Dr. Ed,

      Your statement about the disciples disobeyin Christ were dealt with in https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/some-people-claim-the-apostles-disobeyed-christ-and-god-had-to-compromise-his-plan/#comment-2771

      The short of it is that the disciples DID go to a mountain in Galilee, which is seen in Matthew 28:16-20.

      I have no idea what you mean by this:

      As for Bethsaida, Capernaum and Gennereset, the first is across the river from where the 5000 is fed, Capernaum is to the east along the shore of the lake, and Gennereset is even further east…..I don’t think, landing in Gennereset when you are sent to Bethesaida is a good excuse , that close enough is good enough..have a look at any map.

      And I disagree that the early church brought the believers under the law in Acts 15, as the things spoken about were mentioned before the law was delivered.

      Paul was not imporisoned because he succummed to the pharisees, but because he spoke against them and against what the emperor wanted.

      I dont think its clear in the Bible when Christ was born, and I think its picking nits to make that an issue. But it seems to me lambs were newly born, so its likely that it was in the spring.

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