JESUS VS PAUL #1: SALVATION FOR JEWS ONLY?

The following is from JESUS VS PAUL #1: SALVATION FOR JEWS ONLY?

(1) Jesus–“Go not into the way of the Gentiles” (Matt. 10:5) and “I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel” (Matt. 15:24), and “…for salvation is of the Jews” (John 4:22) versus Paul–“For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, I have set you to be a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the uttermost parts of the earth” (Acts 13:47) and “from henceforth, I (Paul–Ed.) will go unto the Gentiles” (Acts 18:6) and “that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it” (Acts 28:28) and “that I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles” (Rom. 15:16) and “that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ” (Eph. 3:8) and (Acts 20:21, 26:17-18, 20, 23, 22:21, Rom. 1:5, 13, 3:29, 11:11-13, 15:9, Gal. 2:2, 7-9, 3:14, Eph. 3:6, 1 Tim. 2:7, 3:16, 2 Tim. 4:17). Jesus told his followers not to go to the Gentiles and Paul countermanded the order.

The site linked to above is one which has a number of apparent discrepancies between what Jesus said and what Paul said. They do not appear to truly be looking for ways to reconcile what appear to be differences. Instead, they seem intent on showing that Christianity should not be following the word of God. Joel, a friend of the blog, pointed them out to me and asked if I’d be willing to take a shot at clearing up some of the points made on that site, along with him. And yes, they are actually numbered. So I figured I would start at the beginning. To do so, we need to look at each quote in context.

I will use the NIV translation, as it is easier to read than the KJV.

Matthew 10:5-20

5These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7As you go, preach this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven is near.’ 8Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy, drive out demons. Freely you have received, freely give. 9Do not take along any gold or silver or copper in your belts; 10take no bag for the journey, or extra tunic, or sandals or a staff; for the worker is worth his keep.

11“Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave. 12As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you. 14If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. 16I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

17“Be on your guard against men; they will hand you over to the local councils and flog you in their synagogues. 18On my account you will be brought before governors and kings as witnesses to them and to the Gentiles. 19But when they arrest you, do not worry about what to say or how to say it. At that time you will be given what to say, 20for it will not be you speaking, but the Spirit of your Father speaking through you.

Notice, Jesus DOES tell the disciples to go to Israelites and not to the Gentiles. But also notice that he said, “If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.” And then notice why: “It will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town. I am sending you out like sheep among wolves.” Jesus sent the disciples to the Jews only because they were the one’s from among whom the Savior of the world was born, and they would have the first chance to accept what God has done. But Jesus knew there would be some who would reject what God was doing. Even so, they had “first dibs”. This would allow God to be shown as having shown mercy and grace – the Jews would not be able to say, “I did not know” or “I was not given a chance.” Jesus sent his followers to those from whom he came, and they were given a chance to accept what God had done. Some would accept it, but some would not.

Let us now look at the next passage mentioned in the apparent discrepancy, Matthew 15:24, but in context.

Matthew 15:22-28,

22A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, “Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession.”

23Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, “Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us.”

24He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel.”

25The woman came and knelt before him. “Lord, help me!” she said.

26He replied, “It is not right to take the children’s bread and toss it to their dogs.”

27“Yes, Lord,” she said, “but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters’ table.”

28Then Jesus answered, “Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted.” And her daughter was healed from that very hour.

Again, Jesus DID say he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel. Some might say he was rude, but I think it more likely that Jesus knew what would happen and let it play out. Part of it may have been that Jesus was using this experience to teach his followers – nothing Jesus did was without purpose. The Jews of that time thought highly of themselves and less of Gentiles. His followers had to recognize the difference, and recognize what Jesus did. Note that the woman said essentially that even the crumbs of what GOD provides is worth having. Some might think this ugly, but if you think about it, she was showing her faith in God – even the littlest thing Jesus could do would be great. Because of her faith, her daughter was healed. Jesus did not ignore her, but granted her petition made in true faith. This is how it is with God. Many people ask for things, but only some of those prayers are actually made in faith, or are in the will of God. And it is THOSE requests that God grants. In healing the GENTILE woman’s daughter, Jesus was showing that it is FAITH in God that matters, not who has it.

But getting back to the point, Jesus said he was only sent to the lost sheep of Israel. His purpose was not to heal people. His purpose was to show the lost sheep of Israel that God was fulfilling prophecy among them. So, he focused his time and effort upon those to whom he was sent. He was sent to a specific people, at a specific time, for a specific purpose. In fulfilling the purpose of God, Jesus was showing obedience to God.

Now the next verse in question is even easier to explain.

John 4:22

You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

Note that Jesus did not say, “salvation is FOR the Jews.” Rather he said, “salvation is FROM the Jews.” Salvation came through the tribe of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The latter was renamed Israel.

Genesis 32:28

Then the man said, “Your name will no longer be Jacob, but Israel, because you have struggled with God and with men and have overcome.”

Jesus was descended from Jacob (Matthew 1:2). The people were known as Israelites. So yes, salvation in the form of Jesus of Nazareth came from the Jews. Notice that in John 4:7-42, Jesus again did not ignore those who were not Jewish. In this chapter, Jesus was clear that He was the Messiah, the Christ.

Now, before we get into the verses from or about Paul, let us look at what Jesus said to his disciples in Matthew 28:18-20

18Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Note, Jesus told the disciples to go to ALL nations. While Jesus had been sent to the lost sheep of Israel, his followers were sent to everyone. It was not just Jews to whom salvation had come, but to everyone who believed. we see this in John 3:16-18,

16“For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Now we will look at when the Jewish believer began to more fully understand that the truth of salvation was not intended just for the Jews – not by looking at Paul, but at Peter in Acts 10:9-48.

9About noon the following day as they were on their journey and approaching the city, Peter went up on the roof to pray. 10He became hungry and wanted something to eat, and while the meal was being prepared, he fell into a trance. 11He saw heaven opened and something like a large sheet being let down to earth by its four corners. 12It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. 13Then a voice told him, “Get up, Peter. Kill and eat.”

14“Surely not, Lord!” Peter replied. “I have never eaten anything impure or unclean.”

15The voice spoke to him a second time, “Do not call anything impure that God has made clean.”

16This happened three times, and immediately the sheet was taken back to heaven.

17While Peter was wondering about the meaning of the vision, the men sent by Cornelius found out where Simon’s house was and stopped at the gate. 18They called out, asking if Simon who was known as Peter was staying there.

19While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Simon, three[a] men are looking for you. 20So get up and go downstairs. Do not hesitate to go with them, for I have sent them.”

21Peter went down and said to the men, “I’m the one you’re looking for. Why have you come?”

22The men replied, “We have come from Cornelius the centurion. He is a righteous and God-fearing man, who is respected by all the Jewish people. A holy angel told him to have you come to his house so that he could hear what you have to say.” 23Then Peter invited the men into the house to be his guests.

Peter at Cornelius’ House

The next day Peter started out with them, and some of the brothers from Joppa went along. 24The following day he arrived in Caesarea. Cornelius was expecting them and had called together his relatives and close friends. 25As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.”

27Talking with him, Peter went inside and found a large gathering of people. 28He said to them: “You are well aware that it is against our law for a Jew to associate with a Gentile or visit him. But God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean.29So when I was sent for, I came without raising any objection. May I ask why you sent for me?”

30Cornelius answered: “Four days ago I was in my house praying at this hour, at three in the afternoon. Suddenly a man in shining clothes stood before me 31and said, ‘Cornelius, God has heard your prayer and remembered your gifts to the poor. 32Send to Joppa for Simon who is called Peter. He is a guest in the home of Simon the tanner, who lives by the sea.’ 33So I sent for you immediately, and it was good of you to come. Now we are all here in the presence of God to listen to everything the Lord has commanded you to tell us.”

34Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right36You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all. 37You know what has happened throughout Judea, beginning in Galilee after the baptism that John preached— 38how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him.

39“We are witnesses of everything he did in the country of the Jews and in Jerusalem. They killed him by hanging him on a tree,40but God raised him from the dead on the third day and caused him to be seen. 41He was not seen by all the people, but by witnesses whom God had already chosen—by us who ate and drank with him after he rose from the dead. 42He commanded us to preach to the people and to testify that he is the one whom God appointed as judge of the living and the dead. 43All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

44While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.

Then Peter said, 47“Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

In the above chapter, we see that Peter had a vision that whatever GOD calls clean is clean (vs 9-19). Peter realized that God does not show favoritism, as we see in verses 34-35, “Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear him and do what is right.” Then we saw in verses 44-48 that while Peter was telling them the gospel, the Holy Spirit came upon all who heard the message, even on the Gentiles. Then they were baptized. So, while Jesus was sent TO the Jews, He was sent FOR everyone who believed, Jew and Gentile alike.

Now let us look at some of the passages concerning Paul in context.

Acts 13:13-48

13From Paphos, Paul and his companions sailed to Perga in Pamphylia, where John left them to return to Jerusalem. 14From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down. 15After the reading from the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue rulers sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have a message of encouragement for the people, please speak.”

16Standing up, Paul motioned with his hand and said: “Men of Israel and you Gentiles who worship God, listen to me! 17The God of the people of Israel chose our fathers; he made the people prosper during their stay in Egypt, with mighty power he led them out of that country, 18he endured their conduct for about forty years in the desert, 19he overthrew seven nations in Canaan and gave their land to his people as their inheritance. 20All this took about 450 years.

“After this, God gave them judges until the time of Samuel the prophet. 21Then the people asked for a king, and he gave them Saul son of Kish, of the tribe of Benjamin, who ruled forty years. 22After removing Saul, he made David their king. He testified concerning him: ‘I have found David son of Jesse a man after my own heart; he will do everything I want him to do.’

23“From this man’s descendants God has brought to Israel the Savior Jesus, as he promised. 24Before the coming of Jesus, John preached repentance and baptism to all the people of Israel. 25As John was completing his work, he said: ‘Who do you think I am? I am not that one. No, but he is coming after me, whose sandals I am not worthy to untie.’

26“Brothers, children of Abraham, and you God-fearing Gentiles, it is to us that this message of salvation has been sent. 27The people of Jerusalem and their rulers did not recognize Jesus, yet in condemning him they fulfilled the words of the prophets that are read every Sabbath. 28Though they found no proper ground for a death sentence, they asked Pilate to have him executed. 29When they had carried out all that was written about him, they took him down from the tree and laid him in a tomb. 30But God raised him from the dead, 31and for many days he was seen by those who had traveled with him from Galilee to Jerusalem. They are now his witnesses to our people.

32“We tell you the good news: What God promised our fathers 33he has fulfilled for us, their children, by raising up Jesus. As it is written in the second Psalm:
” ‘You are my Son;
today I have become your Father. 34The fact that God raised him from the dead, never to decay, is stated in these words:
” ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings promised to David.’ 35So it is stated elsewhere:
” ‘You will not let your Holy One see decay.’

36“For when David had served God’s purpose in his own generation, he fell asleep; he was buried with his fathers and his body decayed. 37But the one whom God raised from the dead did not see decay.

38“Therefore, my brothers, I want you to know that through Jesus the forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you. 39Through him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses. 40Take care that what the prophets have said does not happen to you:
41” ‘Look, you scoffers,
wonder and perish,
for I am going to do something in your days
that you would never believe,
even if someone told you.'”

42As Paul and Barnabas were leaving the synagogue, the people invited them to speak further about these things on the next Sabbath.43When the congregation was dismissed, many of the Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who talked with them and urged them to continue in the grace of God.

44On the next Sabbath almost the whole city gathered to hear the word of the Lord. 45When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy and talked abusively against what Paul was saying.

46Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: “We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles. 47For this is what the Lord has commanded us:
” ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles,
that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.'”

48When the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and honored the word of the Lord; and all who were appointed for eternal life believed.

Notice that first Paul went to the Jews, spoke in the synagogue, concerning the fulfillment of prophecy in verses 16-42. But we see in verse 45, the Jews did not like the attention Paul was receiving and were jealous. Paul told them in verse 46 that they had to speak the word of God to them FIRST. And since they rejected it, they turned to the Gentiles, because God had told them they were to take salvation to the ends of the earth. It was not just for Jews, but for everyone. But Paul went first to the Jews, as Jesus had done. God will be shown to have been gracious and faithful.

Now let us look at where Paul said he would go to the Gentiles, Acts 18:5-8

5When Silas and Timothy came from Macedonia, Paul devoted himself exclusively to preaching, testifying to the Jews that Jesus was the Christ. 6But when the Jews opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, “Your blood be on your own heads! I am clear of my responsibility. From now on I will go to the Gentiles.”

7Then Paul left the synagogue and went next door to the house of Titius Justus, a worshiper of God. 8Crispus, the synagogue ruler, and his entire household believed in the Lord; and many of the Corinthians who heard him believed and were baptized.

Again, note that Paul first went to the Jews and then to the Gentiles, after the Jews opposed Paul. This was his custom. We can see this in Acts 17:2

As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures

It wasn’t that the Gospel was only for Jews or for Gentiles. It was the Jews were given the first opportunity to respond in faith. Then the Gentiles were given the opportunity. Perhaps this was because Paul was Jewish by birth, but was an apostle to the Gentiles. Regardless, we see the pattern even when Paul was being held prisoner in Rome, awaiting his trial before Caesar. First he spoke to the Jews, but he tells us that their hearts had become hardened, just as God had said would happen in Isaiah 6:9-10. And that was why Paul wanted the Jews to know that salvation was sent to the Gentiles.

Acts 28:17-31

17Three days later he called together the leaders of the Jews. When they had assembled, Paul said to them: “My brothers, although I have done nothing against our people or against the customs of our ancestors, I was arrested in Jerusalem and handed over to the Romans. 18They examined me and wanted to release me, because I was not guilty of any crime deserving death. 19But when the Jews objected, I was compelled to appeal to Caesar—not that I had any charge to bring against my own people. 20For this reason I have asked to see you and talk with you. It is because of the hope of Israel that I am bound with this chain.”

21They replied, “We have not received any letters from Judea concerning you, and none of the brothers who have come from there has reported or said anything bad about you. 22But we want to hear what your views are, for we know that people everywhere are talking against this sect.”

23They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. 24Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 25They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: “The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet:
26” ‘Go to this people and say,
“You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.”
27For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

28“Therefore I want you to know that God’s salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!”

30For two whole years Paul stayed there in his own rented house and welcomed all who came to see him. 31Boldly and without hindrance he preached the kingdom of God and taught about the Lord Jesus Christ.


Rather than trying to deal with each passage in which Paul said he was an apostle to the Gentiles, I thought I would address the one which shows that Paul was assigned to go to the Gentiles, while Peter was assigned to the Jews. Galatians 2:7-9

7On the contrary, they saw that I had been entrusted with the task of preaching the gospel to the Gentiles, just as Peter had been to the Jews8For God, who was at work in the ministry of Peter as an apostle to the Jews, was also at work in my ministry as an apostle to the Gentiles. 9James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews.

Paul simply would go to the synagogue first and then to the Gentiles – since he was Jewish by birth and was an apostle to the Gentiles.

No, Paul was not countermanding what Jesus had said. Jesus had been sent TO the Jews, and salvation came FROM the Jews (through them). But it was FOR everyone who would believe.

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22 Responses

  1. […] original here:  JESUS VS PAUL #1: SALVATION FOR JEWS ONLY? « Wbmoore's Weblog Posted in Jesus Will Answer | Tags: 31and-said, her-petition, people-ask, petition, poor, […]

    • Greeting WB:

      You would do well to look-up the meaning of “world”, “earth”, “nations” in Greek. In virtually every case, the land of Israel or Judea was meant or world of Jews or the 8 nations bordering Israel…not to be confused with “world-wide” or “Planet Earth”. This is why we never saw the disciples witnessing in New Zealand or in Peru, and why it was said that the Grecian King (Alexander) had conquered the “whole earth”, which literally meant “the land” of Israel. In all honesty, you and I both know that Alexander did not conquer Ireland or Sweden, so why do we continue to misconstrue these words?

      Secondly, you would do well to forget everything you have learned from Paul. He was never introduced or foretold by Almighty YHWH, he was never recruited or mentored by Christ and he was not known to the Twelve. This guy came walking out of the wilderness under his own power, telling an unbelievable story, preaching his own gospel, seeking to build his own foundation (apart from Christ’s), hoping to “father” his own disciples and be the messiah of the Gentiles.

      Keep in mind that Christ told His disciples “EVERYTHING” beforehand, including the arrival of wolves in sheep’s clothing, false prophets and false teachers, who would try to deceive the very elect, but He never mentioned the arrival of a new super apostle, a new gospel, a new foundation, a new messiah or a new change in direction. Oh, yeah…I almost forgot…Christ also forgot to tell the Twelve that He would appear as a shining light for Paul and give him secret revelations, but He would not appear to them.

      If that sounds retarded…it’s because it is. Paul was never mentored by Christ and never received the Holy Spirit from Christ or the Twelve. He is out there all by himself, peddling his gospel of cheap salvation (“by grace you are saved through faith” [alone]). His message is the same as the serpent’s in the Garden, “You won’t surely die”…”not when God loves you so much.”

      When the young rich guy in Matthew and Mark asked Christ what he needed to do to be saved, did Yeshua say, “By grace you are saved through faith?” No. Christ said, “If you want to live, keep the commandments.”

      At the end of the day, Paul is set apart from the entire Old Testament narrative, set apart from Almighty YHWH, His precious Son and the Twelve. Follow this charlatan at your own risk and to your own destruction.

      By the way, Luke was Paul’s press secretary, personal friend and disciple, who wrote the Book of Luke and the Book of Acts. This guy, therefore, was a disciple of a disciple of a disciple of a disciple – meaning he carried around 3rd and 4th generation hearsay. This guy was a witness to nothing and neither was Paul. This is why Paul’s miraculous conversion story changed three times. Now that I think about it, Joseph Smith, Jr’s. story of a brilliant light and voice from the risen Christ is just as believable as Paul’s. At least Paul’s story only changed 3 times, whereas Joseph Smith’s changed 9 times.

      The bottom line is that we cannot know what Peter, James or John said or did (according to Luke), because Luke, Paul, and their associates are untrustworthy sources with an agenda. These guys went around making stuff up as they went and dropped names whenever they chose, according to their purposes, which was their new gospel, foundation and church.

      Peace be with you – John

      P.S. Too many Pauline interpolations have been found in the New Testament. Just reading the shameful plug about Paul in the last chapter of 2nd Peter makes me want to vomit. The church “fathers” loved Paul’s message of cheap salvation and moral compromise, hence Paul’s letters were showcased in what became known as the “New Testimonies”, compiled in the fourth-century.

      Just thought you may want to know.

      • So… Jesus said the Holy Spirit would guide his disciples into all the truth (even though they coule not then bear it). And Peter was a disciple to whom that was said. And Peter said Paul wrote scripture.

        John 16:7-14

        7 Nevertheless, I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I go away, for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you. But if I go, I will send him to you. 8 And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment: 9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in me; 10 concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father, and you will see me no longer; 11 concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.

        12 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. 14 He will glorify me, for he will take what is mine and declare it to you.”

        2 Peter 3:15-16

        15 And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.

        So, Peter calling Paul’s writing scripture is not good enough for you to accept what Paul wrote.
        New Testament Churches at the time of Christ’s passing being accepting of Paul’s leadership is not good enough for you.
        The fact that God led the church leadership at the time of the canonization of the scriptures to recognize and accept and embrace Paul’s writings as scripture is not good enough for you.

        All scripture is God breathed.
        2 Timothy 3:16-17

        16 All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

        It seems to me that you are picking and choosing what scripture you will accept. So you are above God in this. I feel sorry for you and pray your eyes and heart are opened to the truth and you repent.

  2. Well done, Wb!

  3. […] Moore and I will attempt to answer more than a few of the objections raised here. His first post his here, and his second […]

  4. […] many ways, this objectiion is similar to the objections dealt with in JESUS VS PAUL #1: SALVATION FOR JEWS ONLY?,  JESUS VS PAUL #3: ENTER SAMARIA OR NOT?, and JESUS VS PAUL #12: all justified or not?. Having […]

  5. Brothers think about it, the corss on which prophet Jesus was put on had a sing , King of the Jesws, to mock him, THAT was the main claim that the Jews didn’t like,

    The Quran also tells that prophet Jesus is a true Messiah to the people of Israel. It also tells that some people changed the Bible with the tongue. One recent example of change is

    John 3:16 where older versions of the Bible said Jesus was the begotten son but now begotten has been removed and the chruch says its now discovered that was a fabrication. This was the only verse that made a different son of God compared to the so many others that the Bible calls son of God.

    Prophet Muhammad was the cousin of prophet Jesus but 570 years apart. Both are direct descendants of Abraham and makes so they are blood related.

    Song of Solomon 3:16 talks about Muhammad by name in the Hebrew bible. Interestingly its been translated but cannot be translated in a digital translator or Hebrew translator app because the word is a proper noun.

    Song of Solomon 5 -16
    טז חִכּוֹ, מַמְתַקִּים, וְכֻלּוֹ, מַחֲמַדִּים; זֶה דוֹדִי וְזֶה רֵעִי, בְּנוֹת יְרוּשָׁלִָם.

    16 His mouth is most sweet; yea, he is Mahammad-dim. This is my beloved, and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem

    Is that a coincident? God,s words could have a coincident or everything has a meaning.

    Other verses stating of a comping prophet.

    John 14 16

    16 And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever–

    John 15 26

    “When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

    John 16 7 – 14

    But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you

    When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment

    in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me

    in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer

    and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned

    “I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

    But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

    He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.

    • You wrote,

      Brothers think about it, the corss on which prophet Jesus was put on had a sing , King of the Jesws, to mock him, THAT was the main claim that the Jews didn’t like,

      Actually, the problem is that Jesus claimed to be God.

      Jesus made Himself to be equal with God
      Jn 5:16-18

      16 So, because Jesus was doing these things on the Sabbath, the Jews persecuted him. 17 Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I, too, am working.” 18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

      We see in Jn 10:30-33, where Jesus made Himself equal to God, thus claiming to be God.

      30 I and the Father are one.” 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

      Not only did Christ claim to be God, But because Jesus died for us, we have been justified by His blood, saved from God’s wrath, reconciled to God through Jesus.
      Christ died for us. Romans 5:8-11

      8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! 10 For if, when we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! 11 Not only is this so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

      Jesus claimed He was ‘I AM” BEFORE Abraham was born in Jn 8:58

      “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

      People fell down before Christ in the garden of Gethsemene (the pronoun ‘he’ is not in the original text) when He said ‘I am’, in John 18:6

      “I am he,” Jesus said. (And Judas the traitor was standing there with them.) When Jesus said, “I am he,” they drew back and fell to the ground.

      Whether newer versions of the Bible translations have replaced ‘begotten’ with ‘one and only’ when discussing Jesus as the Son of God has no effect on whether Jesus was the Son of God or not.
      Hebrews 5:5

      5 So also Christ did not glorify Himself so as to become a high priest, but He who said to Him,
      “YOU ARE MY SON, TODAY I HAVE BEGOTTEN YOU”;

      Hebrews 11:17

      17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises was offering up his only begotten son;

      1 John 4:9

      9 By this the love of God was manifested [a]in us, that God has sent His [b]only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him.

      The verses you mention which speak of a coming prophet are NOT speaking of a human prophet.

      You have to read further in the chapters you quoted from, but its is easy to see the Bible is speaking of the Holy Spirit, not a human prophet.
      God will send the Holy Spirit – not a human prophet.
      John 14:26

      But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

      Jesus will send the Holy Spirit
      John 15:26

      When the Counselor comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father, he will testify about me.

      You mentioned that Mohammad and Jesus were cousins. In fact, Mohammad never claimed such a thing and said he did not know his geneology beyond Nather bin Kinaneh his the 17th ancestor.

      In fact ( http://religionresearchinstitute.org/Mohammad/ishmael.htm ), “Historians say that the family of Mohammed was a family which lived in Saba-Yemen. In the 5th century A.D., Qusayy Bin Kilab, the 8th ancestor of Mohammed, gathered an alliance of many Yemeni families forming Quraish, the tribe from which Mohammed later came. These families only came to occupy Mecca in the 5thcentury A.D. The city of Mecca was built by the tribe of Khuzaa’h in the 4th century A.D. Mohammed’s family is not connected to any Ishmaelite tribe because Mohammed’s family didn’t leave Yemen until the 5th century A.D., and that’s about 1,100 years after the Ishmaelites disappeared. Mohammed’s tribe could not have lived in the same locations as the Ishmaelite tribes at any time throughout history.”

  6. All arabs know they’re the descendants of Ishmael. They do not need the Bible or the Qu’ran to tell them. Americans don’t need a Holy Book to know they’re American. Ishmael’s blood is in them. This is in their tradition. All Jews are cousins/brothers of Arabs. Jews acknowledge this, Arabs acknowledge this, historians acknowledge this.

    There are many issues regarding accounts of Jesus. There is a problem called Synoptic Problem. Check it out.

    The claim that Jesus was trialed because he claimed to be God is debatable. Historically that is certainly not the reason. If someone claimed to be God a trial is not needed to kill him. It is permitted to stone a person for blasphemy. Nobody will hestitate to stone someone who claims to be God.

    Matthew 26:59-60
    59 The chief priests and the whole Sanhedrin were looking for false evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death. 60 But they did not find any, though many false witnesses came forward.

    There is a list on http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Agora/4229/djd.html that shows some verses where Jesus made a distinction between him and God. It only takes one differentiating statement to prove someone is not God. For example Jesus said he could do nothing of himself. If Jesus claimed to be God and said he could do nothing of himself, he is not God.

    John 10:31-39 is a perfect example. He was distinguishing between himself and the Father, giving the example that even though people were called ‘god’ they were not god. Even more so for himself.

    Eventually we are all accountable to God as individuals, we must make our own conclusions according to our God given intellect. Love hashem your elohim with all your mind

    Peace :)

    • I think you are confused about what the Synoptic Problem is – it does not deal with any issue regarding accounts of Jesus other than whether the synoptic gospels had independent sources or shared one or more common sources.

      Scripture tells us that Jesus made himself equal with God, and that is why the Jews tried to kill him:
      John 5:18

      For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.

      The Jewish leaders also didnt like that Jesus was condemning them for what they did God’s house. But they were afraid to kill him because of the crouds who followed him.
      Mark 11:17-19

      17 And as he taught them, he said, “Is it not written: “‘My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations’? But you have made it ‘a den of robbers.’”

      18 The chief priests and the teachers of the law heard this and began looking for a way to kill him, for they feared him, because the whole crowd was amazed at his teaching.

      Yet, they definitely wanted to kill him, they were just afraid to because there might have been a riot. So they plotted to have him arrested and have him killed.
      Matthew 26:3-5

      3 Then the chief priests and the elders of the people assembled in the palace of the high priest, whose name was Caiaphas, 4 and they plotted to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill him. 5 “But not during the Feast,” they said, “or there may be a riot among the people.”

      In fact, the Jews DID try to stone Jesus because he claimed to be God.
      Jn 10:30-33

      30 I and the Father are one.” 31 Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, 32but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” 33 “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.”

      As for any differentiation between Jesus and the Father, they are different people in the same God-head. There is one God, but three persons in it. There are MANY verses indicating the Christ was God. I have written more than a few posts on the subject:
      https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2009/04/18/did-jesus-exist-before-time-is-jesus-god/
      https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/07/19/what-makes-us-think-jesus-is-god/
      https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2011/03/03/some-verses-showing-christ-is-god/
      https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2009/04/26/is-christ-god/
      https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/12/01/i-am-said-jesus/

      So yes, Jesus the Christ was the Messiah, the Son of God, who made Himself equal to God, who claimed to be God.

      • Thanks for the reply :)

        You are right about the Synoptic Problem. It deals mainly with identifying sources for the Synoptics. However dealing with this problem also leads one to raise other questions. The issue of Synoptic Problem arises because Mark, Luke and Matthew are word-for-word the same yet they different in minute details. One will then also question the relationship between John and the Synoptics. Matthew 26 shows how the impression can be quite different. In Matthew Jesus was not accused of blasphemy when he was brought to trial.

        John 5:18 says the Jews were seeking to kill him because he made himself equal with God. The situation is also like in John 10, which I will touch on later. Right after 5:18, in verse 19 it says:
        ‘the Son can do nothing of his own accord”
        It is as though Jesus was saying to what extend was he equal with God yet he was not God. Jesus said he had authority and power but ultimately the Father was the one who sent him and allowed him to do so.

        Regarding John 10, I had quoted verses 31 to 39, which is a response to the Jews’ accusation. It is true that the Jews accused him of that but Jesus put up a defence, which is a very good one. In this sense I feel that Jesus was actually denying the charge and denying that he is God.

        The following verses in John also gives the impression that Jesus is not like God:

        “For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
        sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” [John 12:49]

        “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but
        the will of Him who sent Me.” [John 6:38]

        “You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you
        loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” [John 14:28]

        Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”[John 20:17]

        In light of this, it is more plausible that the writer accounted the story to show how Jesus put up a defence to the accusation that he claimed to be God. God never denies he is God. God will not put up a defence to an accusation that he claimed to be God.

        Anybody can accuse anybody of blasphemy. In the same way anybody can put up a defence and Jesus did. Jesus also never once demanded worship for himself, or claimed to be God. He repeatedly asked people to worship God. The examples in the Bible are numerous, everyone knows that. The most important commandment is ‘Hear O Israel, YHWH is ELOHIM and YHWH is One’. In Hebrew, ‘Adonai Eloheinu Adonai Ehad’.

        Many people worshipped the Roman Emperors and the Roman Emperors accepted the people’s worship. It does not mean that they were gods.

        My personal conclusion is that Jesus is not God. Everyone is entitled to conclude for themselves, whether they are right or wrong. According to my principles I cannot force myself to believe that Jesus is God, just as you cannot believe that Muhammed is the last Messenger of God. Either of us is correct, or both of us are wrong. I am very happy to have this exchange.

        Hashem bless you

        May Allah grant peace upon all the Prophets including Isa (sall allahu aleyhi wa salam) and Muhammed (sall allahu aleyhi wa salam)

        Peace

        • The gospel authors had different purposes in writing, which is why there are different focuses and different orders in what was written.

          Mark’s audience were Gentile believers, written to show Jesus Christ as Servant of the Lord and Savior of the world in order to strengthen the believer’s faith and to teach the meaning of being His disciples.

          Matthew’s audience were Jews. He wrote to show how Jesus fulfilled what the Jewish prophets wrote about Him. Matthew describes in detail the lineage of Jesus from Adam through David. Matthew’s purpose was to show Jesus as the King and Messiah of Israel?.

          Luke's audience was Theophilus, possibly a Roman dignitary, but he may have been a Jewish High Priest. Luke wrote an orderly account of the life of Jesus of Nazareth, the Great Physician. He focused attention on his ministry to, and compassion for, Gentiles, Samaritans, women, children, tax collectors, sinners, and others regarded as outcasts in Israel.

          John's audience was those who might beleive. He wrote so "that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name." The focus of John was to show that Jesus is God, giving seven 'I am' statements.
          “Bread of life” (John 6:35),
          “Light of the world” (John 8:12),
          “Good Shepherd” (John 10:11)
          the “Door of the sheep.” (John 10:7)
          "the resurrection and the life” (John 11:25)
          the “way, the truth and the life” (John 14:6)
          “true Vine” (John 15:1, 5).

          In speaking about Himself, Jesus claimed the name God gave Moses about Himself – Jesus said "I AM" in Jn 8:58

          “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

          Jesus answered “I am” when the soldiers said they were seeking Jesus of Nazareth, and they fell backwards to the ground. Jn 18:4-9 (Young’s Literal Translation)

          4 Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?’
          5 they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;’ Jesus saith to them, `I am [he];’ — and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; –
          6 when, therefore, he said to them — `I am [he],’ they went away backward, and fell to the ground

          Where you mentioned that there is a distinction between God and Jesus, either Jesus is showing the three persons in one God – showing that as God’s Son, He is not the Father. Even so, He is God.

          God is at the Father’s side and made God known.
          John 1:18

          18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.

          Jesus is He who made God known.
          John 17:26

          I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.

          Not only that, but Jesus sits at the right hand of God. Jesus is God.
          Hebrews 1:3

          The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

          The deity of Christ can be seen in Philippians 2:5-7, where we see that Jesus lowered Himself

          5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
          6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
          7 but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.

          In fact, Paul said Jesus had two natures, human and divine:
          Jesus is both man and God. His human body was resurrected, but it was done to show He is God.
          Romans 1:1-5

          1 Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus, called to be an apostle and set apart for the gospel of God— 2 the gospel he promised beforehand through his prophets in the Holy Scriptures 3 regarding his Son, who as to his human nature was a descendant of David, 4 and who through the Spirit of holiness was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead: Jesus Christ our Lord. 5 Through him and for his name’s sake, we received grace and apostleship to call people from among all the Gentiles to the obedience that comes from faith.

          So yes, Jesus is God.

          • Precisely the writers had different purpose. They are so different that one can have a totally different conclusion when reading a gospel by itself. As the title of the gospels suggests, they are just accounts ‘according to’ the authors of the gospels. If one reads Mark, there is no clue that Jesus is God. Jesus is called son of God only 5 times. A son of God is commonly used in the Tanakh. Jews all call Hashem their father in heaven. Comparing to John’s 100 plus times its really a difference. Would the author of Mark have approved of the gospel of John?

            Let’s assume Markan priority. In Matthew and Luke there are words that are different from Mark. The changes are not significant but its implications are.

            Taken from English Standard Version

            ————————————————————————————
            Luke 18
            41 “What do you want me to do for you?” He said, “Lord, let me recover my sight.”

            Matthew 20
            33 They said to him, “Lord, let our eyes be opened.”

            Mark 10
            51 And Jesus said to him, “What do you want me to do for you?” And the blind man said to him, “Rabbi, let me recover my sight.”

            ————————————————————————————
            Matthew 20
            31 The crowd sternly ordered them to be quiet; but they shouted even more loudly, “Have mercy on us, Lord, Son of David!”

            Mark 10
            48 Many sternly ordered him to be quiet, but he cried out even more loudly, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”

            Luke 18
            39 Those who were in front sternly ordered him to be quiet; but he shouted even more loudly, “Son of David, have mercy on me!”
            ————————————————————————————-

            These are just two examples where the word ‘Rabbi’ is accounted in one gospel but ‘Lord’ in the other two. I agree that the gospels have different target audience and purpose. However, if one author wants to copy from another person’s account, he should not change it, especially the words that people say. If I said ‘I am Joel’, I said ‘I am Joel’. Nobody should change it and put words into my mouth. I did not say ‘I, a boy, am Joel’. Even if it is for a good purpose, changing what someone said is lying.

            One can say ‘Lord’ and ‘Rabbi’ are synonyms. If that is so, the connotation of the word ‘Lord’ should not exceed that of ‘Rabbi’ or ‘Teacher’. It would not be surprising to conclude that the authors of Luke and Matthew magnified accounts.

            The implication of this is that the integrity of the author will be questioned. How do we know that Luke reported accounts accurately if he would just change the words as he liked? In all the other occasion where Jesus is refered to as ‘Lord’, which of them was actually ‘Rabbi’ in the original accounts?

            DISTINCTION OF JESUS AND FATHER
            ————————————————————————————-
            My issue of the Triune Godhead is not that there are three persons, but there are different conciousness, wills and attributes between the three. If one were to say that Jesus played a different role and the Father played a different role there would be less to debate. However, the differences that exist are not just of roles, but of will and attributes. For example Jesus said that the Father is greater than him. No godhead of God can be greater than another godhead of God. Jesus said that the Father sent him and he did the will of the Father and not his. A Triune God as a single being cannot have different wills. Jesus also said that he would not know the hour that will come. The son in the godhead is not all-knowing but the Father is.

            The reason why I cannot accept this is that God will not confuse people and not be clear about who he is. If God confuses people then its natural they’ll be misguided. When people are misguided they do not give glory to God. This is not what God wants. If from the accounts in the 4 Gospels we still can deduce that Jesus is God, there would be no way to disprove other people’s claim to deity. If God on earth is not the greatest, not all-knowing and can be tempted, we will not be able to distinguish between God and men.

            I do not accept that Jesus was claiming deity when he used I AM. In Greek there are no capital letters, hence ‘I AM’ is simple ‘I am’. In daily usage everybody will use the same two words. Jesus actually defines himself with ‘I am’, as the ‘way, truth and life’ and so on. In Exodus when Moses met God, God said ‘I AM WHO I AM’. This statement denotes self sustainence and infinity. In that God cannot be contained by life and existence itself. God is neither of these. He is above all, the giver of life. To say that ‘I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through me’, Jesus defined himself and distanced himself from the Father both at the same time.

            I notice you are quoting from other books other than the gospels. Your belief that it is true allows you to use them as authority. You have also came across the Jesus vs Paul problem. I don’t have much knowledge in that but let’s just assume Paul is inspired and right.

            I’ve said that it only takes one differentiating statement to disprove that Jesus is God. Jesus never once said he was God and also said that he is not all-knowing. With this I conclude that he is not God. Once someone has attributed himself the attributes of men he can never be God.

            The doctrine of Hypostasis Union that Jesus is both God and Man is highly problematic. This is one of the reason I cannot accept the whole and every part thereof of the Bible as God’s Word.

            • If I tell you about my son’s playing football, I will focus on his football playing, practice, etc. But you will likely hear little of nothing about my son’s academic history, nor would you hear much about his love for God (although both might be mentioned). The focus and purpose is different. You could certainly not determine that my son is an A student who helps people because of his kind heart and loves God, just by me talking about his football games. This is the case with the human authors of the gospels. Since their purposes were different, they focused upon different things. So when one focused upon Christ having fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament that spoke of the Messiah, this does not mean he will necessarily speak about being God, other than peripherally.

              As for Jesus being God, Matthew, Mark, Luke all have stories where Jesus said “your sins are forgiven.” Only God can forgive sins (Mark 2:9), yet Jesus did it repeatedly (Matthew 9; Mark 2; Luke 5). While the focus of these gospels were different, they all have a story of Jesus forgiving sins, showing He is God.

              You can choose to find ways to harmonize various Bible passages, or you can choose to try to make it look like they are contradictory. Just because something appears to be contradictory does not mean it is.

              For instance, in dealing with differences in the stories of blind people being healed in Matthew 20, Mark 10, and Luke 18, they could be separate incidents. One has to notice that Mark speaks of Jesus coming into Jericho and healing one man. Matthew speaks of Jesus leaving Jericho and healing two men. Luke speaks of approaching Jericho and healing one man.

              I know when I visit Mexico, I have had multiple people talk to me asking for money in the space of a block. What would prevent multiple people from asking Jesus to be healed on the road to and the road from Jericho? If that’s the case here, then of course they would say different things.

              However, even if they refer to the same story (Luke 18 and Mark 10 probably are the same story), when different people tell a story, one person will tell it one way and another person will tell it another way – yet neither a lying and neither are wrong. This is why eye witness testimony needs to be gathered and compared – each person will tell what they heard or saw and sometimes from a given bias or with a given purpose. For instance, suppose someone said, “Rabbi, Lord, I want to see.” One person could report that he said, “Rabbi, I want to see;” yet a different person reported he said, “Lord, I want to see,” and they would both be right and not lying. Its just that one focused on one thing while the other focused on the other thing. I have written a post that deals with this sort of thing when looking at the color of Christ’s robe ( https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/what-color-was-the-robe-of-christ/ ).

              As for people copying from one gospel to write their own, that is a supposition which scholars have laid upon the text. It is not necessarily correct. I dont think it is. I can write a long letter and a short letter to two different people and you would not be able to tell which came first – the short one or the long one. I can tell the same story to two different groups at two different times, but with different focuses – and when I do, the details will be different. Its like writing a resume – when I write a resume for business, I focus on certain things and when I write a resume for ministry, I focus on other things. They are both honest, but each one leaves out details included in the other, and magnifies other details that the other one would minimize or not even include. Imagine what happened when you have two or three people tell similar stories for different purposes to different audiences….

              If we have two different people writing to two different audiences at two different times with two different purposed, yet both were eye witnesses or one was an eye witness and the other had the stories told to him, there does not necessarily have to be ANY copying of one by the other. They could simply tell many of the same stories. As I have said, eye witnesses do not tell the same story in the same way – they will have each seen or heard some things that another eye witness may have missed, and they will miss some details another eye witness will have included. This does not mean they wrong nor does it mean they lied.

              As for the trinity, I use the model of multiple personality disorder to understand it. Its a flawed model, because we’re human and God is not. Yet its the closest thing I have found that helps me understand. Each personality has its own will and thoughts and memories, and purposes. Sometimes you speak to one personality, sometimes you speak to a different personality. Sometimes one personality is made to deal with abuse and protect the others. Sometimes one personality decides what another personality will do and when. Sometimes a personality will chose to do what that other personality wants it to do, and sometimes not. Each is distinct and separate, yet they also are not separate in that you can not have that person without that personality – each personality is needed to make up the whole person.

              As for whether God will confuse people, yes, he will if He feels it necessary. He confused man’s languages at the tower of Babel (Genesis 11). Jesus said he spoke in parables so some would not understand (Matthew 13:12-14)

              You can reject anything I tell you, but that does not mean I am wrong. Yes, everyone says, “I am.” Yet, not everyone falls backward and down when they hear it said.

              I am not using capitalization when I say Jesus said “I am” and people fell backwards and down. I am using what the gospels say. Jesus used the name God used for Himself and it held power so they fell down. Notice in the Young’s literal translation that the “he” is in square brackets, which indicates thy are not actually in the text ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2018:1-9&version=YLT ). The word was only added for clarity.
              John 18:1-9 (Young’s literal translation)

              1 These things having said, Jesus went forth with his disciples beyond the brook of Kedron, where was a garden, into which he entered, himself and his disciples,
              2 and Judas also, who delivered him up, had known the place, because many times did Jesus assemble there with his disciples.
              3 Judas, therefore, having taken the band and officers out of the chief priests and Pharisees, doth come thither with torches and lamps, and weapons;
              4 Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?’
              5 they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;’ Jesus saith to them, `I am [he];’ — and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; —
              6 when, therefore, he said to them — `I am [he],’ they went away backward, and fell to the ground.
              7 Again, therefore, he questioned them, `Whom do ye seek?’ and they said, `Jesus the Nazarene;’
              8 Jesus answered, `I said to you that I am [he]; if, then, me ye seek, suffer these to go away;’
              9 that the word might be fulfilled that he said — `Those whom Thou hast given to me, I did not lose of them even one.’

              The power of Jesus saying “I am” knocked the people around him down. This is evidence of His deity.

              Yes, Jesus said no one can come to God except through Him. There is nothing keeping people from God except God. He is the gateway. youre problem is that you refuse to accept that Jesus had dual natures, one of humanity and one of divinity. And that’s ok. You are free to follow God or not. But if you deny Christ, then you deny God.
              Matthew 10:32-33

              32 `Every one, therefore, who shall confess in me before men, I also will confess in him before my Father who is in the heavens;
              33 and whoever shall deny me before men, I also will deny him before my Father who is in the heavens.

              As for why I quote from the other books in the New Testament, they are considered scripture also.

              1. Jesus said in John 7:16-18 that His teaching was from God the Father.
              2. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring to remembrance the things He said (John 14:26).
              3. Jesus said in Luke 10:16 that those who listen to the apostles listen to Him.
              4. The Apostle John claimed his writings were accurate and true (John 21:24).
              5. Peter wrote in 2 Peter 1:20-21 that speaking for God (true prophecy) comes only from God.
              6. Peter equated Paul’s writings with the Old Testament in 2 Peter 3:15-16, calling his writings scripture.
              7. Paul stated in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is breathed out by God.
              8. Paul claimed his teaching came from God (1 Corinthians 14:37; 2 Corinthians 2:12-14;2 Corinthians 12:19; Galatians 1:11-12; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15).
              9. Paul quoted from the Pentateuch and the Gospels and stated he was quoting scripture (1 Timothy 5:18).

              The only thing I can tell you about Jesus being God is that He will have to open your mind and heart to see the truth. I pray you will pray to know the truth.

  7. I’m sorry Mark, Luke and Matthew are word-for-word the same in some places. In those places there are minute differences which hints a motive for the writer to change. Whether the motives are right or wrong is another question but I just wanted to point out that when encountering the problem many other questions surface.

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    If I tell you about my son’s playing football, I will focus on his football playing, practice, etc. But you will likely hear little of nothing about my son’s academic history, nor would you hear much about his love for God (although both might be mentioned). The focus and purpose is different. You could certainly not determine that my son is an A student who helps people because of his kind heart and loves God, just by me talking about his football games. This is the case with the human authors of the gospels. Since their purposes were different, they focused upon different things. So when one focused upon Christ having fulfilled the prophecies of the Old Testament that spoke of the Messiah, this does not mean he will necessarily speak about being God, other than peripherally.
    ================================================
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    Your analogy supports the point that we cannot conclude that Jesus is God. If you tell me about your son playing football, I cannot conclude about his academic performance. If the Gospels tell us that Jesus is the Messiah, we cannot conclude that he is God.

    I do agree that their focus and purpose are different. The problem does not lie in whether one Gospel told a story that cannot be found in another. The problem arises when there are portions which are word-for-word the same, yet there are singled-out occurrences of differences. There are parts where the same story is accounted but there are details which are different.
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    ================================================
    As for Jesus being God, Matthew, Mark, Luke all have stories where Jesus said “your sins are forgiven.” Only God can forgive sins (Mark 2:9), yet Jesus did it repeatedly (Matthew 9; Mark 2; Luke 5). While the focus of these gospels were different, they all have a story of Jesus forgiving sins, showing He is God.
    ================================================
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    Mark 2
    A few days later, when Jesus again entered Capernaum, the people heard that he had come home. 2 They gathered in such large numbers that there was no room left, not even outside the door, and he preached the word to them. 3 Some men came, bringing to him a paralyzed man, carried by four of them. 4 Since they could not get him to Jesus because of the crowd, they made an opening in the roof above Jesus by digging through it and then lowered the mat the man was lying on. 5 When Jesus saw their faith, he said to the paralyzed man, “Son, your sins are forgiven.”
    6 Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, 7 “Why does this fellow talk like that? He’s blaspheming! Who can forgive sins but God alone?”
    8 Immediately Jesus knew in his spirit that this was what they were thinking in their hearts, and he said to them, “Why are you thinking these things? 9 Which is easier: to say to this paralyzed man, ‘Your sins are forgiven,’ or to say, ‘Get up, take your mat and walk’? 10 But I want you to know that the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins.” So he said to the man, 11 “I tell you, get up, take your mat and go home.” 12 He got up, took his mat and walked out in full view of them all. This amazed everyone and they praised God, saying, “We have never seen anything like this!”

    The situation here is the same as John 5 and John 10. The accusation that Jesus claimed to be God is read as though the accusation is true. The Pharisees thought that only God can forgive sins and accused Jesus of blasphemy. Jesus puts up a defence saying that the ‘Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth’.

    John 5:27
    And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

    God can give Jesus the authority to forgive sins but it does not make Jesus God. Jesus acknowledges that he is the Son of Man and refuted the Pharisees’ accusation. From this story we cannot conclude that he admitted to being God.
    *************************************************************************
    You can choose to find ways to harmonize various Bible passages, or you can choose to try to make it look like they are contradictory. Just because something appears to be contradictory does not mean it is.
    For instance, in dealing with differences in the stories of blind people being healed in Matthew 20, Mark 10, and Luke 18, they could be separate incidents. One has to notice that Mark speaks of Jesus coming into Jericho and healing one man. Matthew speaks of Jesus leaving Jericho and healing two men. Luke speaks of approaching Jericho and healing one man.
    I know when I visit Mexico, I have had multiple people talk to me asking for money in the space of a block. What would prevent multiple people from asking Jesus to be healed on the road to and the road from Jericho? If that’s the case here, then of course they would say different things.
    However, even if they refer to the same story (Luke 18 and Mark 10 probably are the same story), when different people tell a story, one person will tell it one way and another person will tell it another way – yet neither a lying and neither are wrong. This is why eye witness testimony needs to be gathered and compared – each person will tell what they heard or saw and sometimes from a given bias or with a given purpose. For instance, suppose someone said, “Rabbi, Lord, I want to see.” One person could report that he said, “Rabbi, I want to see;” yet a different person reported he said, “Lord, I want to see,” and they would both be right and not lying. Its just that one focused on one thing while the other focused on the other thing. I have written a post that deals with this sort of thing when looking at the color of Christ’s robe ( https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/what-color-was-the-robe-of-christ/ ).
    As for people copying from one gospel to write their own, that is a supposition which scholars have laid upon the text. It is not necessarily correct. I dont think it is. I can write a long letter and a short letter to two different people and you would not be able to tell which came first – the short one or the long one. I can tell the same story to two different groups at two different times, but with different focuses – and when I do, the details will be different. Its like writing a resume – when I write a resume for business, I focus on certain things and when I write a resume for ministry, I focus on other things. They are both honest, but each one leaves out details included in the other, and magnifies other details that the other one would minimize or not even include. Imagine what happened when you have two or three people tell similar stories for different purposes to different audiences….
    If we have two different people writing to two different audiences at two different times with two different purposed, yet both were eye witnesses or one was an eye witness and the other had the stories told to him, there does not necessarily have to be ANY copying of one by the other. They could simply tell many of the same stories. As I have said, eye witnesses do not tell the same story in the same way – they will have each seen or heard some things that another eye witness may have missed, and they will miss some details another eye witness will have included. This does not mean they wrong nor does it mean they lied.
    ================================================
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    It is true some contradictions can be resolved. However there are many that cannot be.

    The way you resolve the contradiction in Matthew 20, Mark 10 and Luke 18 is in my opinion unreasonable. From the texts itself it can be seen an author was refering to another when writing. It is more reasonable to conclude that somebody changed the content when referencing than that all three are different incidents.

    On a side-note, please take note that when I say something has been changed does not prove that something is wrong. The changes could be intentional or unintentional. To prove that there is something wrong I must show a motive that can be proven by using these changes. When I say ‘changed’ I mean simply there is a difference.

    For the similar parts in the Synoptics, it can be proven somebody was copying from another. Like you said many people will report the same event differently. But to report it in the same words and sequence is improbable. Two journalists don’t use the same sentences to describe the same event.

    Lets draw an anology from your experience. Three magazines reported of your experience in Mexico.

    Magazine A:
    Before going to California, he walked down a block where many asked him for money.

    Magazine B:
    After going to California, he walked down a block where a guy asked him for money.

    Magazine C:
    At Mexico, a young gentleman asked him for money.

    Nobody will have an issue when comparing Magazine B and C. Like you said eyewitnesses can relate an incident differently. The style of the author will be reflected and the choice of words would be different. However in the case of Synoptics the situation is like comparing Magazine A and B. One will have to conclude either A copied from B or B copied from A. They are too similar to have been constructed independently. This is just a sentence. One can say it may be quite probable that two people account the same incident with the same choice of words in a sentence. However in the Synoptics there are exact paragraphs and sentences which makes independent authorship improbable.

    Personally I do not find a reason to harmonize the Gospels in the way you did. If I were the author of the original account I would have accused the other two of plagiarising and dismiss the other two. I need not go further and try to explain why there was a change. I cannot accept all three as true at the same time. Harmonizing can be done but it also brings out the differences between the accounts. The conclusion that the healing of the blind man occured in different times is made when one has the presupposition that all three Gospels are true.
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    As for the trinity, I use the model of multiple personality disorder to understand it. Its a flawed model, because we’re human and God is not. Yet its the closest thing I have found that helps me understand. Each personality has its own will and thoughts and memories, and purposes. Sometimes you speak to one personality, sometimes you speak to a different personality. Sometimes one personality is made to deal with abuse and protect the others. Sometimes one personality decides what another personality will do and when. Sometimes a personality will chose to do what that other personality wants it to do, and sometimes not. Each is distinct and separate, yet they also are not separate in that you can not have that person without that personality – each personality is needed to make up the whole person.
    As for whether God will confuse people, yes, he will if He feels it necessary. He confused man’s languages at the tower of Babel (Genesis 11). Jesus said he spoke in parables so some would not understand (Matthew 13:12-14)
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    ================================================
    Your model of multiple personality disorder does not limit the personalities to three. Hence if I say there are 4 or 2 persons in 1 being your model still can explain it. Therefore it is not sufficient to explain the Trinity specifically. In my opinion to relate God with a model of multiple personality disorder is blasphemous. I stress that this is my opinion.

    Jesus said that he did not know the hour. If one personality of God can be not omniscient, it is also possible that another personality of God is not holy. An attribute of God is that He is all-knowing. If there are multiple personalities of God then so be it. However all the personalities must have all the attributes of God.

    The consequence of the Hypostasis Union is that God and man cannot be differentiated. The examples of confusion you mentioned are not what I was talking about. When God confused the language of people He did not confuse people about his nature. Jesus said he spoke in parables so some would not understand. There is a difference between being confused and not being able to understand. Matthew 13:12-14 is about people who will hear but not understand. If Einstein explains to me his theory of relativity I will not understand because I’m not a physicist. However that does not make me confused.

    The Trinity causes a problem in worship and application. It is by definition that the Father is fully God, the Son is fully God and the Holy Spirit is fully God. If I worship the Father I am worshipping God. If I worship the Father and not the Son, I would still be worshipping God. It makes a person of God unneccessary. We cannot help as humans that when we think of 3 in 1 we think of a fraction and in terms of number. The ‘first’ person of God, the ‘second’ person of God and the ‘third’ person of God. The concept that God is in unity and infinite does not allow one to associate a number with God. Infinity is not a number. It is something that cannot be measured and not bound to the rules of logic and math. Hence it cannot be added, subtracted, divided or multiplied. It would be better to say that God is One and nothing else. According to the Gospels Jesus said the greatest commandment is the Shema. If gentiles want to know what he meant, they must ask the Jews. There is no concept of God existing as persons that could be counted.

    The issue with Trinity is very big. We all know the Trinitarian side of the argument. If you would like, you can check out http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/. Everybody makes mistakes and are flawed. You may not agree with everything they say; they may not be right in every argument but I still think there is something to learn from there.
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    You can reject anything I tell you, but that does not mean I am wrong. Yes, everyone says, “I am.” Yet, not everyone falls backward and down when they hear it said.
    I am not using capitalization when I say Jesus said “I am” and people fell backwards and down. I am using what the gospels say. Jesus used the name God used for Himself and it held power so they fell down. Notice in the Young’s literal translation that the “he” is in square brackets, which indicates thy are not actually in the text ( http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%2018:1-9&version=YLT ). The word was only added for clarity.
    John 18:1-9 (Young’s literal translation)
    1 These things having said, Jesus went forth with his disciples beyond the brook of Kedron, where was a garden, into which he entered, himself and his disciples,
    2 and Judas also, who delivered him up, had known the place, because many times did Jesus assemble there with his disciples.
    3 Judas, therefore, having taken the band and officers out of the chief priests and Pharisees, doth come thither with torches and lamps, and weapons;
    4 Jesus, therefore, knowing all things that are coming upon him, having gone forth, said to them, `Whom do ye seek?’
    5 they answered him, `Jesus the Nazarene;’ Jesus saith to them, `I am [he];’ — and Judas who delivered him up was standing with them; –
    6 when, therefore, he said to them — `I am [he],’ they went away backward, and fell to the ground.
    7 Again, therefore, he questioned them, `Whom do ye seek?’ and they said, `Jesus the Nazarene;’
    8 Jesus answered, `I said to you that I am [he]; if, then, me ye seek, suffer these to go away;’
    9 that the word might be fulfilled that he said — `Those whom Thou hast given to me, I did not lose of them even one.’
    The power of Jesus saying “I am” knocked the people around him down. This is evidence of His deity.
    ================================================
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    The point that ‘ego eimi’ is the Tetragrammaton is debatable. It has been noted that ‘I AM THAT I AM’ was translated as ‘ho on’ in the Septugaint and not ‘ego eimi’. In John 18:5, the ‘I am’ is Jesus’ confirmation that he is ‘Jesus the Nazarene’. The fact that the people fell down is not evidence for his deity. If I were to argue it showed the power of the Messiah and not God, it would still be possible. If God gave Jesus such power it would be possible.
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    Yes, Jesus said no one can come to God except through Him. There is nothing keeping people from God except God. He is the gateway. youre problem is that you refuse to accept that Jesus had dual natures, one of humanity and one of divinity. And that’s ok. You are free to follow God or not. But if you deny Christ, then you deny God.
    Matthew 10:32-33
    32 `Every one, therefore, who shall confess in me before men, I also will confess in him before my Father who is in the heavens;
    33 and whoever shall deny me before men, I also will deny him before my Father who is in the heavens.
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    I do not deny Jesus. What was Jesus supposed to be confessed as? One cannot conclude that Jesus is God elsewhere and then come back to Matthew and say that Jesus was asking people to confess him as God. Just by reading from Matthew chapters 1 to 10, we cannnot conclude that Jesus is God. Even shortly after Matthew 10:32-33, in verse 41, ‘The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward’. In this chapter Jesus was claiming prophethood, not godhood.

    Please bear with me. I will touch abit about Islam because I think that there are some things you should know. I don’t know if you know them already, but I will keep it short. Muslims do believe in Jesus as the Messiah. It is an article of faith to believe in all the Prophets and Messengers, including Jesus. When a muslim like me encounter statements like ‘if you deny Christ, then you deny God’, it does not make a point. Muslims do not deny Christ. On this note Christians and Muslims are in agreement. The disagreement is in Christology and role of Christ. For Christians, Jesus is not just the Prophet, Messenger and Messiah but he is God and atonement for sins. This is the difference in Christology of Islam and Christianity. In response to the above paragraph I must point out that I and Muslims do indeed confess Jesus as a prophet and the Messiah as in described in Matthew.
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    As for why I quote from the other books in the New Testament, they are considered scripture also.
    1. Jesus said in John 7:16-18 that His teaching was from God the Father.
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    In this verse Jesus did not say Paul’s teaching was from God the Father hence it is not a reference to the whole New Testament. Whether Paul’s teaching is from God is another matter but this verse tells nothing of it.
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    2. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring to remembrance the things He said (John 14:26).
    ================================================
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    If this verse is a proof to the New Testament, it can also be a proof for the Qu’ran or the Book of Mormon.
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    3. Jesus said in Luke 10:16 that those who listen to the apostles listen to Him.
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    Then the question here is who were his apostles. James and Peter were obviously Jesus’ apostles. I presume you are implying Paul is an apostle too. That itself is debatable. We know James as the Leader of the Messianic movement in Jerusalem said that converts need to circumsize. According to Paul, gentile converts do not need to.

    ESV Matthew 23
    “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

    According to Jesus followers must also do and observe what the Pharisees say. Pharisees uphold the Law, which includes circumcision. Paul’s view is quite different on issue.
    Who are we supposed to listen to?
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    4. The Apostle John claimed his writings were accurate and true (John 21:24).
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    Muhammed claimed that the verses revealed to him were accurate and true hence this verse does not prove anything. Apart from this I assume you are trying to attribute the Gospel of John, Revelations, John 1 and John 2 to John. This notion itself is contended.
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    5. Peter wrote in 2 Peter 1:20-21 that speaking for God (true prophecy) comes only from God.
    6. Peter equated Paul’s writings with the Old Testament in 2 Peter 3:15-16, calling his writings scripture.
    7. Paul stated in 2 Timothy 3:16 that all scripture is breathed out by God.
    8. Paul claimed his teaching came from God (1 Corinthians 14:37; 2 Corinthians 2:12-14;2 Corinthians 12:19; Galatians 1:11-12; 1 Thessalonians 2:13; 2 Thessalonians 2:13-15).
    9. Paul quoted from the Pentateuch and the Gospels and stated he was quoting scripture (1 Timothy 5:18).
    The only thing I can tell you about Jesus being God is that He will have to open your mind and heart to see the truth. I pray you will pray to know the truth.
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    I really appreciate your effort in replying. I also pray that we all will move closer to the truth.

    • I’m sorry it has taken so long to reply. Life has been quite busy, and your comment was probably one of the lengthiest I have had to respond to in a very long time.

      You wrote:

      Your analogy supports the point that we cannot conclude that Jesus is God. If you tell me about your son playing football, I cannot conclude about his academic performance. If the Gospels tell us that Jesus is the Messiah, we cannot conclude that he is God.

      I do agree that their focus and purpose are different. The problem does not lie in whether one Gospel told a story that cannot be found in another. The problem arises when there are portions which are word-for-word the same, yet there are singled-out occurrences of differences. There are parts where the same story is accounted but there are details which are different.

      I disagree that we can not know whether Jesus is God.

      If the Bible tells us that Jesus is Messiah, Then we can accept that He is Messiah. If the Bible tells us that Jesus is God, whether from actions or direct statements, we can conclude that Jesus is God. Jesus can be both.

      When different people talk to police about an auto accident, they will each tell what they saw from their perspective. The same story, but different details are focused upon, with others being left out. Some details might be identical, while others will be markedly different. This does not make them wrong. This is what happened with the gospels’ accounts. An example is the color of the robe of Christ, which I have written about here: https://wbmoore.wordpress.com/2008/09/22/what-color-was-the-robe-of-christ/

      I previously wrote;

      As for Jesus being God, Matthew, Mark, Luke all have stories where Jesus said “your sins are forgiven.” Only God can forgive sins (Mark 2:9), yet Jesus did it repeatedly (Matthew 9; Mark 2; Luke 5). While the focus of these gospels were different, they all have a story of Jesus forgiving sins, showing He is God.

      You responded:

      The situation here is the same as John 5 and John 10. The accusation that Jesus claimed to be God is read as though the accusation is true. The Pharisees thought that only God can forgive sins and accused Jesus of blasphemy. Jesus puts up a defence saying that the ‘Son of Man has authority to forgive sins on earth’.

      John 5:27
      And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.

      God can give Jesus the authority to forgive sins but it does not make Jesus God. Jesus acknowledges that he is the Son of Man and refuted the Pharisees’ accusation. From this story we cannot conclude that he admitted to being God.

      Notice over what Jesus has authority:

      Unclean spirits (Mark 1:23-28)
      Sickness (Mark 1:29-31)
      Disease (Mark 1:40-44)
      Forgiveness of Sin (Mark 2:1-12)
      The Sabbath (Mark 2:23-28)
      Weather (Mark 4:35-41)
      Death (Mark 5:21-43)
      ALL authority in heaven and on earth (Matthew 28:17-20)

      In the Old Testament, we see that it is God who forgives sin, as well as punishes sin (Exodus 34:6-7). We see in Nehemiah 9:17 that God is a forgiving God. We see in Isaiah 43:25 that is it God who forgives. Indeed, King David said in Psalms 51 that it was only against God that he sinned, so it is only God who can forgive.

      Notice in Mark 12:35-37 (quoting Psalm 110:1) the LORD said to king David’s lord to sit at His right hand.

      In Matthew 2:2, we see the magi were looking for the king of Israel, so they could worship him. The word used in Matthew 2:2 for ‘worship’ is proskuneo ( http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/proskuneo.html ). This word is translated either bow down or worship, depending on context. Satan wanted Jesus to worship him, but Jesus quoted scripture and said “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’ (Matthew 4:10; Luke 4:8). Jesus told us we are only to worship God. How do we know when proskuneo is used to indicate worship? We know it is irrefutably used as worship when proskuneo is used in conjunction with ‘fell at feet’, as we see in Acts 10:25, Revelation 19:10, and Revelation 22:8 – when the people who worshipped were reprimanded for worshipping. We see in Matthew 4:9 that Satan didn’t just want Jesus to bow down to him, but wanted Jesus to ‘bow down and worship’ – which is why Jesus replied that only God should be worshipped.

      In Matthew 8:2 and Luke 5:12, we see a leper kneeling before Jesus. This was most likely an example of respectfully bowing, rather than worship. This is most likely the case with Matthew 9:18, Matthew 15:25, and Matthew 20:20. In Mark 5:6 and Mark 15:19, it is unclear whether the people involved are kneeling or worshipping (granted, the later would be mock worship, if it was). But returning to look at Matthew 2:1-12, we see proskuneo translated as worship. Is it accurate? Based upon the fact that in verse 11, we see the magi bowing AND worshipping, yes it is. There would be no need to kneel if they were already bowing, so the word must mean they were worshipping the baby Jesus. We see another example of the word being translated as worship in Matthew 28:9, where the disciples grasped Jesus’ feet and worshipped.

      In Matthew 14:3, Matthew 28:17, and John 9:38 we see examples which might be either bowing or woshiping, but I think it safe to say they are examples of more than simple respect, I think they are concrete examples of true worship.

      Indeed, Hebrews 1:6 tells us (speaking of Jesus): ‘And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”.; This is also found in the dead sea scrolls and masoretic text of Deuteronomy 32:43 when speaking of God.

      Yes, there are times when the word proskuneo is used as ‘kneel’, but the context tells us that time and again people worshipped Jesus. More than that, while Jesus corrected Satan, and while others (people and angels) corrected people for trying to worship them, JESUS accepted the worship – worship which Jesus Himself said was only to be given to God.

      This is strong evidence that Jesus recognized His own deity.

      This is even more clear when we see in John 8:24 Young’s Literal Translation that Jesus said people must believe that Jesus is “I am”
      24 I said, therefore, to you, that ye shall die in your sins, for if ye may not believe that I am [he], ye shall die in your sins.’

      You wrote,

      It is true some contradictions can be resolved. However there are many that cannot be.

      The way you resolve the contradiction in Matthew 20, Mark 10 and Luke 18 is in my opinion unreasonable. From the texts itself it can be seen an author was refering to another when writing. It is more reasonable to conclude that somebody changed the content when referencing than that all three are different incidents.

      I disagree. I have spoken to people and had exactly the sort of thing I described above happen – different people focus on different details for a reason. In fact, I’ve had my own children do this to me, and to hear one tell a story about their time at a skating rink, there was a hot girl at the skating rink, to hear another one tell it, there were a multitude of hot girls at the skating rink. Both are correct, neither is copying from each other as they were both eye witnesses, they merely focused on different details.

      Of course, Luke probably WAS influenced by others – since he said he researched it. But this does not mean he changed anything. He wrote what God wanted written.

      On a side-note, please take note that when I say something has been changed does not prove that something is wrong. The changes could be intentional or unintentional. To prove that there is something wrong I must show a motive that can be proven by using these changes. When I say ‘changed’ I mean simply there is a difference.

      For the similar parts in the Synoptics, it can be proven somebody was copying from another. Like you said many people will report the same event differently. But to report it in the same words and sequence is improbable. Two journalists don’t use the same sentences to describe the same event.

      Lets draw an anology from your experience. Three magazines reported of your experience in Mexico.

      Magazine A:
      Before going to California, he walked down a block where many asked him for money.

      Magazine B:
      After going to California, he walked down a block where a guy asked him for money.

      Magazine C:
      At Mexico, a young gentleman asked him for money.

      Nobody will have an issue when comparing Magazine B and C. Like you said eyewitnesses can relate an incident differently. The style of the author will be reflected and the choice of words would be different. However in the case of Synoptics the situation is like comparing Magazine A and B. One will have to conclude either A copied from B or B copied from A. They are too similar to have been constructed independently. This is just a sentence. One can say it may be quite probable that two people account the same incident with the same choice of words in a sentence. However in the Synoptics there are exact paragraphs and sentences which makes independent authorship improbable.

      But while you might be incredulous about different authors stating very similar things without copying, this does not mean it has not happened. Even so, if there was copying, this does not mean any change occurred, but that God has superintended the writing in such a way to ensure the message HE wanted delivered was what was written.

      There are many ways to harmonize the texts. To refuse to do so is simply to ignore what God has provided for you.

      Personally I do not find a reason to harmonize the Gospels in the way you did. If I were the author of the original account I would have accused the other two of plagiarising and dismiss the other two. I need not go further and try to explain why there was a change. I cannot accept all three as true at the same time. Harmonizing can be done but it also brings out the differences between the accounts. The conclusion that the healing of the blind man occured in different times is made when one has the presupposition that all three Gospels are true.

      There is no need to accuse anyone of anything. These letters were written to different audiences for different purposes. If you use something I wrote to help prompt your memory of something, then feel free. Its done all the time. There was not a concept of plagiarism at that time – story tellers were simply trying to tell people what God has done.

      You wrote,

      Your model of multiple personality disorder does not limit the personalities to three. Hence if I say there are 4 or 2 persons in 1 being your model still can explain it. Therefore it is not sufficient to explain the Trinity specifically. In my opinion to relate God with a model of multiple personality disorder is blasphemous. I stress that this is my opinion.

      So, since my model can explain the trinity, you choose to not accept it because it can also explain other numbers of persons. That is your choice. It seems to me that you are not searching for truth, but looking for reasons to not believe. Since that is the case, I doubt we will continue this discussion much further.

      Jesus said that he did not know the hour. If one personality of God can be not omniscient, it is also possible that another personality of God is not holy. An attribute of God is that He is all-knowing. If there are multiple personalities of God then so be it. However all the personalities must have all the attributes of God.

      You are forgetting that God purposefully gave up His divine privileges, making Himself nothing, emptied Himself and took on the form of a bond-servant. (Phil 4:7). He was both man and God. While Jesus was on earth, there were times when He DID have God’s omnicience (Matthew 12:25; Luke 5:21-23; Luke 6:7-9; Luke 11:16-18; John 2:24; John 13:11), and other times when He did not.

      I do not deny Jesus. What was Jesus supposed to be confessed as? One cannot conclude that Jesus is God elsewhere and then come back to Matthew and say that Jesus was asking people to confess him as God.

      Jesus claimed to be God, which is why the Jews wanted to stone him:
      John 8:58 Jesus declared, “I tell you the truth, before Abraham was born, I am!
      John 8:59 Therefore they picked up stones to throw at Him, but Jesus hidHimself and went out of the temple.

      You cannot read chapter 1 of the owners manual of a Chevy Suburban and know that It has towing capability. You must read the entire book to know everything it says. This is true of what God has written in the Bible. To pick and choose what you will “believe” and what you will “ignore” is to say that you do not like the fact that the owner’s manual says to change the oil every three thousand miles, so you will ignore that part. But in time, you find your vehicle no longer works for you because you ignore something important. This is the case with the Bible. If you ignore parts of it, you find it just doesnt work.

      You wrote,

      Just by reading from Matthew chapters 1 to 10, we cannnot conclude that Jesus is God. Even shortly after Matthew 10:32-33, in verse 41, ‘The one who receives a prophet because he is a prophet will receive a prophet’s reward’. In this chapter Jesus was claiming prophethood, not godhood.

      So then do not throw out the rest of the BIble, where it is clearly indicated Jesus is God.

      You wrote,

      Please bear with me. I will touch abit about Islam because I think that there are some things you should know. I don’t know if you know them already, but I will keep it short. Muslims do believe in Jesus as the Messiah. It is an article of faith to believe in all the Prophets and Messengers, including Jesus. When a muslim like me encounter statements like ‘if you deny Christ, then you deny God’, it does not make a point. Muslims do not deny Christ. On this note Christians and Muslims are in agreement. The disagreement is in Christology and role of Christ. For Christians, Jesus is not just the Prophet, Messenger and Messiah but he is God and atonement for sins. This is the difference in Christology of Islam and Christianity. In response to the above paragraph I must point out that I and Muslims do indeed confess Jesus as a prophet and the Messiah as in described in Matthew.

      The problem is, Jesus is either Lord, lunatic, or liar. If he is a liar or lunatic, then he is not a prophet or messenger or messiah.
      But Jesus claimed to be God, as we see in John 8:58. So, if He claimed to be God, then either He is or He is not. If He is not, then either He is a liar or a lunatic. If he is a liar, then he is not moral and could not be a true prophet of God. If He is a lunatic, then nothing He said could be trusted and He could not be a true prophet of God.

      I had written:

      As for why I quote from the other books in the New Testament, they are considered scripture also.
      1. Jesus said in John 7:16-18 that His teaching was from God the Father.

      You responded,

      In this verse Jesus did not say Paul’s teaching was from God the Father hence it is not a reference to the whole New Testament. Whether Paul’s teaching is from God is another matter but this verse tells nothing of it.

      It speaks of what Jesus was saying.

      2. Jesus said the Holy Spirit would bring to remembrance the things He said (John 14:26).

      If this verse is a proof to the New Testament, it can also be a proof for the Qu’ran or the Book of Mormon.

      No, because Jesus was speaking to His apostles, thus it would refer to what God was saying to His messengers.

      3. Jesus said in Luke 10:16 that those who listen to the apostles listen to Him.

      You wrote,

      Then the question here is who were his apostles. James and Peter were obviously Jesus’ apostles.

      I’m glad you agree that James and Peter were Jesus’ apostles. In 2 Peter 3:15-16, Peter called Paul’s writings scripture. So the writings of Paul need to be followed.

      I presume you are implying Paul is an apostle too. That itself is debatable. We know James as the Leader of the Messianic movement in Jerusalem said that converts need to circumsize. According to Paul, gentile converts do not need to.

      Actually, Acts 15 shows that neither Peter nor James thought that converts needed to be circumcised.

      you continued,

      ESV Matthew 23
      “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.

      According to Jesus followers must also do and observe what the Pharisees say. Pharisees uphold the Law, which includes circumcision. Paul’s view is quite different on issue.
      Who are we supposed to listen to?

      Before Jesus paid the price for our sins, the entire Law needed to be followed. So at the time when Jesus stated that, the Pharisee’s teaching needed to be followed, in so far as they taught the Law. But once it was finished (John 19:30), the penalty had been paid. In the blood of Christ, we have redemption, the forgiveness of sin (Ephesians 1:7; Colossians 1:14; Acts 26:10-18).

      You have only to accept Jesus as Lord and Savior, accept the gift of what God offers to receive forgiveness of your sins.

  9. Which is the most important?
    Jesus was asked twice, by two different men, the same basic question about which is the most important or greatest commandment in the Law. Here is how Jesus answered that question:

    #1
    “One of the teachers of the law… asked him [Jesus],
    ‘Of all the commandments, which is the most important?’

    “The most important one,” answered Jesus, “ is this: ‘Hear, of Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.’ The second is this: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no commandment greater than THESE.” [Mark 12:28-31, Deuteronomy 6:4-5, Leviticus 19:18]

    #2
    …an expert in the law, tested him [Jesus] with this question: ‘Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?’”

    Jesus replied: “’Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments.” [Matthew 22:36-40, Deuteronomy 6:5, Leviticus 19:18]

    But in contrast with Jesus, Paul the Pharisee didn’t know the greatest, most important, first commandment according to Jesus. Paul made up his own rule. Paul wrote:
    “The entire law is summed up in a SINGLE command: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’” [Galatians 5:14, Leviticus 19:18]

    And again, Paul wrote:
    “He who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. The commandments, “Do not commit adultery, Do not murder, Do not steal, Do not covet, and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this ONE RULE: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.” [Romans 13:8-10, Leviticus 19:18]

    Jesus said it’s TWO commandments, with the greatest, most important, first command to
    .1) first, love God with everything you’ve got, and
    .2) second, love people.
    Paul said no, it ONE commandment- to love people.

    This is very similar to The Beatles- “All you need is love. Love is all you need. Love, Love, Love.” (In other words, the second commandment, the love of man, without the love of God. Love as me, myself and I define love to be, and continuously redefined by sinful men.)

    In essence, it is also the same principle as what Eve did in the Garden of Eden, forgetting about the Tree of Life, which is the first tree in the middle of the Garden, and instead referring to the second tree as “the tree that is in the middle of the garden.” [Genesis 3:3 & 2:9 2:17, 3:24]

    Kind of like the Pharisees with Jesus, who were pushing the false idea that we can consider ONE commandment in the Law, alone in isolation, to be “the greatest commandment in the Law.”

    Or like today, false teachers in the Chrislam – Purpose Driven – Seeker Sensitive – Emergent – Liberal – Ecumenical – New Age – world church movement pushing the false idea that the ONE RULE is “Loving God and Neighbor together.”

    The Lord God Jesus the Jewish Messiah, Son of Yahweh the Most High God of Israel, said:
    “All the Law and the Prophets hang on these TWO commandments.”
    Not one. TWO.

    Sometimes, Paul was wrong. Jesus is always right. I’m following Jesus.

    Here are answers to 2 common objections:
    .a) What about the so-called “Golden Rule”?
    Jesus spoke the 3 chapters of the Sermon on the Mount, Matthew 5-7, including 7:12. Jesus didn’t make PART of this one verse out of context into “The Golden Rule” or “one rule.” Jesus did not use the term “Golden Rule,” it’s simply a tradition of men. The sentence begins with “So” in the NIV and Amplified Bibles, and “Therefore’ in the NASB and King James Bibles, which ties 7:12 to the previous sentences. So 7:12 cannot stand alone as One Commandment.

    .b) What about the so-called “Great Commission”?
    Jesus spoke the words recorded in Matthew 28:18-20, including “make disciples of all nations.” Jesus never used the term “Great Commission,” it’s simply a tradition of men. Yes I agree it’s a commandment given by Jesus, it’s not optional, and it applies to us today. We need to carry this out, with our own God-given abilities and talents, using the skills, and circumstances we have. But we don’t need to put words in the mouth of Jesus, we can let Jesus speak for himself, and we can listen to Him – and obey Him.

    Evangelism is part of the Second Commandment given by Jesus, to Love people. Evangelism is not the most important commandment, and it isn’t the entire Second Commandment. So if our priorities are “The Great Commission and the Great Commandment,” we have our priorities upside down and confused, and we are not listening to the voice of Jesus. Never mind what Paul said. Let’s listen to the voice of Jesus first, and get our priorities straight.

    The people who will protest most loudly against this truth are the modern “Pauls:” traveling evangelists, speakers, writers, abusive absentee mega-church pastors, Crusaders, and self-appointed “apostles” like Paul, who find it “profitable” to “be like Paul” rather than follow Jesus the Jewish Messiah.

    • Matthew Perri,

      You sound like you are looking for exucuses to ignore what God has written.

      Yes, Jesus was always right. And Jesus called Paul and the Holy Spirit dwelt in Paul. So I would have to disagree with you. I have never seen Paul wrong.

      Paul did not contradict Jesus. Paul taught the need to love God.
      According to Paul, EVERYONE is to love the Lord, or else be accursed.
      1 Corinthians 16:22

      If anyone does not love the Lord, he is to be accursed. Maranatha.

      You are ignoring the difference in the context – Jesus was saying which Law was most important. Paul was saying what the summary of the Law was. These are two different things.

      As for Matthew 7:12, Yes, the word ‘therefore’ ties the phrase to the previous words of Christ. In fact, this verse summarizes his sermon on the mount. Thus, yes, you should treat others as you want to be treated – this is the summary of his sermon on the mount, as well the summary of the Law and the Prophets, according to Jesus.

      Paul never said evangelism is the most important thing or commandment. Neither was Paul was self-appointed.
      Jesus called Paul.
      Acts 9:1-19

      1 Now Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest, 2 and asked for letters from him to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, both men and women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem. 3 As he was traveling, it happened that he was approaching Damascus, and suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him; 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” 5 And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” And He said, “I am Jesus whom you are persecuting, 6 but get up and enter the city, and it will be told you what you must do.” 7 The men who traveled with him stood speechless, hearing the voice but seeing no one. 8 Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were open, he could see nothing; and leading him by the hand, they brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither ate nor drank.
      10 Now there was a disciple at Damascus named Ananias; and the Lord said to him in a vision, “Ananias.” And he said, “Here I am, Lord.” 11 And the Lord said to him, “Get up and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying, 12 and he has seen in a vision a man named Ananias come in and lay his hands on him, so that he might regain his sight.” 13 But Ananias answered, “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how much harm he did to Your saints at Jerusalem; 14 and here he has authority from the chief priests to bind all who call on Your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him, “Go, for he is a chosen instrument of Mine, to bear My name before the Gentiles and kings and the sons of Israel; 16 for I will show him how much he must suffer for My name’s sake.” 17 So Ananias departed and entered the house, and after laying his hands on him said, “Brother Saul, the Lord Jesus, who appeared to you on the road by which you were coming, has sent me so that you may regain your sight and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes something like scales, and he regained his sight, and he got up and was baptized; 19 and he took food and was strengthened.

      Peter recognized that Paul wrote scripture, wrote what God wanted written.
      2 Peter 3:14-16

      14 Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, 16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction.

      So you are free to ignore any part of the Bible that you want to, but you are ignoring God when you do so.

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