Is eternal without end?

There are some who believe that eternal life is here and now and something that has an end.

Eternal life and everlasting punishment happen HERE, IN THE EARTH. That has nothing to do with physical death or what happens to us or where we “go” after we physically die.

and then tried to explain that eternal does not mean without end:

The Greek word “aionios” (translated “eternal” and “everlasting”) is the adjective form of the noun “aion” and the Greek word “aion” actually means “an age” (or “ages” in the plural). To “eternal life” (aionios zoe) and “everlasting punishment” (aionios kolasis) or life and punishment connected to THE AGES and are UNSEEN (ie have nothing to do with literal pits of fire, in the case of everlasting punishment or eternal fire).

Indeed, when speaking of eternal punishment, this same person said that the second death is either being baptized into Christ’s death or is Christ’s death itself. It is unclear if she believes it is for believers or for everyone. (Originally, I had written that she said “the second death is being baptized into Christ’s death and is for believers”, but she took me to task. While she didnt actually SAY that it was for believers, that was the impression given, given that baptism is something done to believers. But going back and reviewing her comment and looking at her blog, it may be she believes everyone is baptized into Christ. It seems that she has redefined so much terminology common to orthodox Christianity that confusion is the result when trying to communicate with others).

First, we have to realize that while Aionios (http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/aionios.html ) comes from Aion (http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/aion.html ), this does not mean it means the same thing as Aion. Yes, Aion means

1. for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity
2. the worlds, universe
3. period of time, age

While it means both an unbroken age, it also means eternity (depending on its context). But be that as it may, Aionios means something different:

1. without beginning and end, that which always has been and always will be
2. without beginning
3. without end, never to cease, everlasting

As you can see by the above definition and by going to the second link above, Aionios is ALWAYS translated to mean forever, eternal, without a beginning and without an end – NOT a long period of time. So we have to be careful of the text to know which term is being used and to know the context of the term in use (especially when we speak of Aion).

Notice that the term used for eternal in Matthew 25:41 when it refers to eternal fire is Aionios, or forever.

41 “Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels ;

Also notice in the same thing is true of the word translated as eternal in Matthew 25:46 when speaking of eternal punishment and eternal life.

46 “These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

When speaking of the eternal fire, the eternal punishment and the eternal life, Christ did not say these things would have an end (as might POSSIBLY be the case had he used Aion). No, Christ was clear that the fire, the punishment, and the life in question would ALL be without ending and would last forever – not for a long indeterminate amount of time (for more on eternal, please see these articles: http://carm.org/look-word-aionionhttp://carm.org/what-do-greek-dictionaries-say-about-aionion ,http://carm.org/look-phrase-forever-and-ever ).

Lets us look at verses dealing with the second death:

Revelation 2:11

‘He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.’

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection ; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.

Revelation 20:14

Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:8

“But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Since the fire, the punishment, and the life in question would ALL be without ending and would last forever, when JESUS said in Revelation 20:14 that the lake of fire (the eternal, without ending, fire spoken of in Matthew 25:41) is the second death, he was NOT speaking of being baptized into Christ’s death. No the second death is the without-ending eternal punishment that is AFTER death. If it was supposed to be being baptized into Christ’s death, then John would have not had to write in Revelation 2:11 that “he who overcomes will not be hurt by the second death.” Also, we see in Revelation 20:6 that the second death has no power over those who take part in the first resurrection (believers in Christ). From THOSE two verses, it is evident that the second death is something that hurts those who do who not overcome (those who do not believe in Christ until they die). Since this is the case, we know the second death can not be baptism into Christ’s death, which does not hurt and only occurs for believers. So no, the second death is NOT baptism into Christ’s death, but something that hurts those who do not trust in Christ – according to JESUS, it is the lake of fire.

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3 Responses

  1. Mr Moore, You want to write blogs about what I say, but you do not even repeat it properly. So how can you even claim to have understood what was said?

    At least you post links so others can go read it for themselves, but I never said that the second death “is for believers”.

    Christ died for us WHEN WE WERE DEAD IN SIN and that is WHEN we were “quickened together with Christ”. (Eph 2:5)

    We (BEING DEAD) were baptized INTO HIS DEATH. (Rom 6:3)

    It is only after we BELIEVE that we PASS from death unto life and come to know the power of HIS RESURRECTION (THE FIRST). Which is exactly what Paul talks about in his letter to the Philippians.

    The reason that Paul said “the dead in Christ shall rise first” and Jesus said: “gather ye together first the tares” is because if one died for all then were ALL DEAD. (2 Cor 5:14)

    • Christine,

      You didn’t use those exact words, but whether you realize it or not, and whether you intended it or not, that is the message you gave. You wrote,

      And did not Paul tells us that we HAVE BEEN baptized into Christ, by being baptized into HIS DEATH? That is “the second death”, Mr. Moore. The first death we suffered was due to sin. And the only way to have part in “the first resurrection” is to be found IN CHRIST. and the only way to be found in Christ is to first be baptized into HIS DEATH (= the second death) so that we can also know the power of HIS RESURRECTION (= the first resurrection).

      It is only believers who are baptized into Christ.
      Romans 4:20-5:1; Romans 6:3-4

      20 Yet he did not waver through unbelief regarding the promise of God, but was strengthened in his faith and gave glory to God, 21 being fully persuaded that God had power to do what he had promised. 22 This is why “it was credited to him as righteousness.” 23 The words “it was credited to him” were written not for him alone, 24 but also for us, to whom God will credit righteousness—for us who believe in him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead. 25 He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification.

      1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,

      3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

      This is more clearly seen in Galatians 3:26

      26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

      So you might not have realized what you said, but that IS what you said. If that is not what you meant, then you need to pray and learn to be more clear in trying to communicate a message. I am not the only one reading your comments, and its evident to more than just me that you are unable to see and accept the truth as laid out by God. Its also evident that a spirit of confusion has affected both your ability to understand and accept what God has said and done, and your ability to communicate clearly.

      Now, it might be that you DONT believe that it is only believers who are baptized into Christ. If that’s the case, then I stand corrected and I will correct what I wrote. But if you dont believe that only believers in Christ are baptized into Christ, then that shows me even more that you do not understand scripture.

      But regardless of whether you were trying to say that the second death is for believers, you still reject what scripture so clearly states in Revelation 20:14 and 21:8, which is that the second death is the lake of fire.

      Remember the tares were for destruction. Not all are saved and not all have eternal life.

      I’m not sure I agree with every point in this article, but its perhaps the best I have found describing eternal life: http://www.mtio.com/articles/bissar74.htm

  2. Hi Christine,

    I am curious as to whether your beliefs are representative of a particular denomination.

    Thanks,

    Kirk

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