rebuttal to Five dangers of Calvinism



 

This video was presented as being a good argument to show that the ideas presented by Calvin are wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ch6niCdIv_Q

Maybe I am wrong, but the guy in the video seems to base what he is saying MOSTLY on how he believes, rather than what the text is saying.

Let’s look at his points:

1) Total depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin).

He stated that the “free gift” spoken of in Eph 2:8-9 is salvation, not faith.

There is support for the gift being salvation, and there is support for faith being the gift, and there is support for grace being the gift. “That” is a neuter gender word in Greek – where the words for ‘salvation’, ‘grace’, and ‘faith’ are all feminine in gender. I will skip the Greek, but there are arguments for all three. I think the best support is for it being the entire phrase “by grace you have been saved through faith” and ‘that’ referring to grace, salvation, and faith.  Let us look at the context:

Ephesians 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Obviously, eternal life is a free gift.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

But many people want to believe they come up with their own faith – that they believe on their on impetus, rather than because of what God has done.

But scripture is clear CHRIST is the author and perfecter of faith:

Hebrews 12:2
fixing our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of faith, who for the joy set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

This is more clear when you look at the fact that the work of God is that you believe in Christ.

John 6:29
Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent

The problem with saying you can choose and that faith is not a free gift from God is that salvation would then depend upon you, and Scripture is clear it does NOT depend on the person who wills (desires) or the person who runs (works), but upon God.

Romans 9:16

So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

Those who believe that it is only salvation which is the free gift miss the point that is made in Ephesians 2:10 – we are GOD’s workmanship, created to do the good works which were prepared by God beforehand so we would do them

Ephesians 2:10

For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

Apollos helped those who believed through grace (not those who believed through their own decision)

Acts 18:27

And when he wanted to go across to Achaia, the brethren encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him; and when he had arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace

Faith, grace, salvation – all come from God – not from man.

Some would say its unfair of God to not give faith to all. But its clear that JESUS spoke in parables so not everyone would believe.

Matthew 13:10-17

10 And the disciples came and said to Him, “Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 Jesus answered them, “To you it has been granted to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been granted. 12 For whoever has, to him more shall be given, and he will have an abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him. 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables; because while seeing they do not see, and while hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. 14 In their case the prophecy of Isaiah is being fulfilled, which says, ‘You will keep on hearing, but will not understand; You will keep on seeing, but will not perceive; 15 For the heart of this people has become dull, With their ears they scarcely hear, And they have closed their eyes, Otherwise they would see with their eyes, Hear with their ears, And understand with their heart and return, And I would heal them.’

So it is fair? Scripture says God has mercy on whom He has mercy, and hardens whom He desires. Some were prepared for destruction. Some were for mercy. He called from among the Jews and the Gentiles.

Romans 9:14-24

14 What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be! 15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I raised you up, to demonstrate My power in you, and that My name might be proclaimed throughout the whole earth.” 18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?” 20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,” will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23 And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles

Now let’s look at his second point:

God will draw all men to Christ for salvation.

The preacher seems to think the fact that Christ draws all to himself (since He has been lifted up) means they are drawn to Christ by the Father for salvation.

But we have to be careful with who is doing the drawing and for what purpose.

Scripture tells us that the FATHER draws people to Christ for salvation.

John 6:44

No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

But the Father is not the Son.  The Father will draw people to Christ to come to Christ and Christ will raise him up on the last day. Jesus said He would draw all men to Himself. The question is why will CHRIST draw all men to Himself?.

John 12:31-33

31 Now is the time for judgment on this world; now the prince of this world will be driven out. 32 But I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.” 33 He said this to show the kind of death he was going to die.

I think it is clear, if we realize that Jesus came originally to call sinners to repentance.

Luke 5:32

I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.

He did not originally come to judge – but to save.

John 12:47

If anyone hears My sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.

But we see in John 5:21-22 that all judgment was given to the Son.

John 5:21-22

21 For just as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, even so the Son also gives life to whom He wishes. 22 For not even the Father judges anyone, but He has given all judgment to the Son,

Jesus said He will judge. In fact, Jesus said that there will be two resurrections – one for judgment and one for eternal life. ALL will come forth – some to a resurrection of life, and others to a resurrection of judgment.

John 5:25-30

25 Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live. 26 For just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the Son also to have life in Himself; 27 and He gave Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man. 28 Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

So, the term ‘draw’ is used for different purposes – one to be saved (where the Father draws some to come to Christ to believe and be lifted up), the other where Christ draws all men for resurrection – some for life and some to be judged.

Some want to say it is not the fault of those who cant believe that they do not believe. This is where Romans 9:14-26 comes in. We see that God has mercy upon whom He has mercy and compassion upon whom He has compassion. Here we see it does not depend upon the man who wills OR who runs. No one can resist God’s will. But some were made for honorable use and others were made for common use. That is to day that God made vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, just as God made vessels of mercy prepared beforehand for glory. Some were from national Israel, and some were from Gentiles.

The preacher’s next point is that if someone believes God elects some and not others, why would we want to have missionaries.

The answer is simple – people must hear the word of God. This is the avenue God chose to give faith to people. We go to tell people the good news. Some would say its not necessary, since God has to give faith. I reply that by that logic, It was not necessary for Christ to suffer and die, since God can save whom He wishes how He wishes.

But the fact is, God chose to send His Son to become human, life a perfect life, and suffer and die to pay the price for our sins. People have to know who God is and what God has done and what God requires of us, and what God will so. This is why we send missionaries. We do not know who that hears the message will respond, or if they will respond the first time they hear it or the second of the fiftieth time they hear it. We do not know what it will take for each person to come to the point where they believe. God knows.

God works all things to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to His purpose.

Romans 8:28

And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

The preacher made the point that God has chosen to save everyone who will believe. And he added “and that’s their choice.”

God HAS chosen to save everyone who will believe. But the choice is God’s. Romans 9, John 6, Ephesians 2. Its not about us and our choice – but about the faith, the grace, and the salvation God gives.

The next point the preacher raised was that in John 3:16, “the world” and “whoever” means that anyone has the opportuinity to believe.

John 3:16

 For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

This does not say everyone gets the opportunity to choose to obey or not. This says that anyone who believes – it is a description, not a command.

But the preacher ignores what total depravity actually is – the fact that man is totally affected by sin. Let us see this in scripture:

Man’s heart is evil, as seen in Mark 7:21-23

21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed the evil thoughts, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, 22 deeds of coveting and wickedness, as well as deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride and foolishness. 23 All these evil things proceed from within and defile the man.”

Man’s heart is deceitful and sick, which we see in Jeremiah 17:9

9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else And is desperately sick; Who can understand it?

Man is a slave to sin, as seen in Romans 6:20

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.

No one is righteous and no one seeks God, as seen in Romans 3:10-12

10 as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11  There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12  All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”

The natural man can not accept or understand the things of God:

1 Corinthians 2:14

But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

By nature, man is a child of wrath – Ephesians 2:3

Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

So then those who believe in the total depravity of man recognize that He does not choose God without God first working in them – which is what we see in Philippians 2:13.

for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

2) Unconditional election

The speaker used Ephesians 1:4 to say that God the Father chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world to be made holy and blameless, but did not choose to put us in Christ.

Ephesians 1:4

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him.

But he ignored verse 5.

In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will

It is evident that God DID choose to adopt us through Jesus Christ to Himself – that is to say that God DID put us in Christ.

Then the speaker mentioned in passing that God is not willing that any should perish .

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

So then to whom does “all’ refer? Note that God is long suffering TOWARD US (believers) not willing that any (who is it that God was long suffering toward? believers) should perish, but that all (who? believers) should come to repentance.

Now DO we have an example in today’s world where any and all would be limited by the object of discussion? Yes: “Eat the cookies. We don’t want any left, but all should be eaten.” This is not speaking of all cookies everywhere. It is speaking of the cookies the speaker is concerned with – those he wants to be consumed, not all the cookies in the world.

His only reason for not accepting that God chooses who will be saved and people still want to be missionaries seems to be because he cant understand – he cant understand that God gets to choose; he cant understand that God’s ways are not our ways, and that what God thinks makes more sense to God than what man thinks – even though this man thinks his ways would make more sense than what God has decided.

He cant understand that God puts a desire to see people saved in those who love Him – even if we do not know who God will save.

This is no different for the Arminian who claims his salvation is based upon his own choice – why evangelize when we don’t know who will be saved? Because we do not know who will be saved nor how. This same answer is true for those who understand that God gifts us faith.

He thinks it would make more sense for God to tell him which few God has chosen in his audience instead of “wasting” his time. How is this any different than it would make more sense for God to tell him which few would choose to believe? Most of his sermon is simply being his beliefs instead of scripture, and he’s rude and condescending while he’s preaching.

Then he turns us to look at John 5:39-40, as if this is saying they could choose to believe

39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. 40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.”

This simply says they will not come to Christ to have life.  This does not say they could or could not.

But what IS Unconditional Election? Unconditional Election is the idea that God does not base His choice of someone on anything He sees in the person.

Ephesians 1:4-8

4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, 6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight

Romans 9:11

for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God’s purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls

 

Romans 9:16
So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

The third point in TULIP is Limited Atonement

The preacher asked the question “Why would Christ have to die for everyone in the world if only some would be chosen?”.

He believes that when Christ died, he died for all the sin of all the world and salvation is for “whosoever.”

But let us look at John 3:16 again. Let’s discuss this idea of “world” the word translated as “world” is actually kosmos. This means universe. It is the word from which we get cosmos. It is translated as form of government, or world, or universe, or humans, or worldly affairs or a collection. Its translated almost exclusively as world. But the word actually means universe.

So God loves His creation that whosoever believes has eternal life – this still does not mean anyone can choose to believe. This is a description “who ever believes has eternal life’. This is not saying any one will have the ability to believe.

The preacher said that God is not respecter of persons, so what criteria would God use to choose one over another, stating that if there were ANY criteria, that God would be a respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34

Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

But lets look at the context of this: In speaking with the Centurion, Peter realized that God didn’t discriminate between gentile and Jew – the righteous person who fears God is welcome to God.

34 Opening his mouth, Peter said: “I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, 35 but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.

But again, this does not say whether God had to give the faith necessary to fear God and have the righteousness of Christ – only that people from both Jews and Gentiles (every nation) would be saved.

And the preacher returned to what would the criteria be to select between two people, claiming it was not fair. We are not told. We are merely told that God does create some for honorable use and some for common use.

And again, we return Romans 9:14-25 – God is not unjust in selecting to make one for one purpose and another for another purpose.

Then he brings up Hebrews 2:9 to say that Christ tasted death for everyone.

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

But let us again look at the word translated as “every”: Pas. This word means

  1. individually a. each, every, any, all, the whole, everyone, all things, everything
  2. collectively a. some of all types

The thing is, we see in scripture where “all” does not mean “all”. An example is seen in Mark 1:32

That evening after sunset the people brought to Jesus all the sick and demon-possessed.

 We know not all the sick and demon-possessed of the world were brought to Jesus. So “all” doesn’t always mean “all”.

So what DOES the “every man” refer to? Continue on to the next verse to see – the “every man” is in context to the many sons for whom Christ is the author of their salvation. So Christ is referring to tasting death for those whose salvation He authored.

Hebrews 2:10

10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things, and through whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to perfect the author of their salvation through sufferings.

So then the preacher brought up that Jesus is the propitiation for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 2:2
and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

I see a number of possibilities for what ‘whole world’ means:

  1. This COULD mean that Jesus atoned for the sins for everyone – whether they would come to believe or not.
  2. This COULD mean that Jesus atoned for the sins for everyone who might believe, regardless of whether they will 0r not. I fail to see how this is any different than the first option.
  3. This could mean that Jesus atoned for the sins of everyone and everyone will be saved. We know from other scripture that not everyone is saved (Matthew 7:21-23), so it can not be this one.
  4. This could mean that Jesus atoned for the sins of everyone, but it only is effective, it is only applied, when one has faith in Christ.
  5. This could mean that Jesus atoned for the sins of all kinds of people, people of every nation – which sounds similar to what we see in
Revelation 5:9
And they sang a new song, saying, “Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation

Personally, I think both #4 and #5 fit the text well.

But what DOES Limited Atonement mean? It means that Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, but only effective for some. We see this in scripture.

Jesus’ blood was poured out for many – Matthew 26:28

for this is My blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for forgiveness of sins.

Christ lays down His life for the sheep – so… does that mean for everyone?

John 10:11

I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.

John 10:15

even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.

We see in Matthew 25:32-46 that the sheep are the righteous ones and not the goats, who are the unrighteous ones.

32 All the nations will be gathered before Him; and He will separate them from one another, as the shepherd separates the sheep from the goats; 33 and He will put the sheep on His right, and the goats on the left.

34 Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; 36 naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.’ 37 Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? 38 And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? 39 When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?’ 40 The King will answer and say to them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.’

41 Then He will also say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, accursed ones, into the eternal fire which has been prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry, and you gave Me nothing to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me nothing to drink; 43 I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in; naked, and you did not clothe Me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit Me.’ 44 Then they themselves also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not take care of You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, ‘Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Indeed, Jesus interceded only for those given to Christ by the Father

John 17:6-9

6 “I have manifested Your name to the men whom You gave Me out of the world; they were Yours and You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word. 7 Now they have come to know that everything You have given Me is from You; 8 for the words which You gave Me I have given to them; and they received them and truly understood that I came forth from You, and they believed that You sent Me. 9 I ask on their behalf; I do not ask on behalf of the world, but of those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours

The church is what Christ purchased with His blood – not everyone.

Acts 20:28

Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood

 The fourth point he address is Irresistible Grace.

The preacher used Acts 7:51-53 to show that man can resist the Holy Spirit.

51 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. 52 Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? They killed those who had previously announced the coming of the Righteous One, whose betrayers and murderers you have now become; 53 you who received the law as ordained by angels, and yet did not keep it.”

What he, and other arminians, fail to understand is that all men resist God – until God works in them to will and to work for His good pleasure (Philippians 2:14). It is at THAT point when it is impossible to resist God.

Anyone who says sinners are not really dead in sin or unable to come to God, have to come up with an answer to the question of “how do they cooperate or respond to the Spirit if they always resist Him?”.  The depravity of people will cause them to always resist God, until such time as God works in them.

But which scripture is often used to show that God’s grace can not ultimately be resisted?

John 1:12-13 shows that people who believe in Christ are reborn by the will of God – not the will of man or flesh.

12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

John 6:37 is used to show that everyone God gives to Christ WILL come to Christ.

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.

Acts 13:48  shows that those who had been appointed to eternal life believed.

48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord; and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.

Philippians 2:12-13 shows that God works in us to desire and to do for God’s good pleasure.

12 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

John 6:28-29 shows that the work of God is that people have faith in God and Christ.

28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

Romans 9:16 shows that whether people are saved does not depend on peoples desires or actions.

16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

The final point the preacher addressed was Perseverance of the Saints. It is obvious this preacher has no concept of what Perseverance of the Saints means. He thinks it means people do not know for sure they are really saved. He spent a bit of time setting up that false argument. It means that once you are saved you are saved.

 

John 10:27-30

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

 

God will glorify those God predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ. Nothing can separate believers from the love of God.

Romans 8:28-39

28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who is against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him over for us all, how will He not also with Him freely give us all things? 33 Who will bring a charge against God’s elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who will separate us from the love of Christ? Will tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written,

For Your sake we are being put to death all day long;
We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered.”

37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Everyone God to Christ will come to Christ, will not be cast out, and will be raised up on the last day, and will have eternal life.

John 6:37-47

37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Those who believe have eternal life, does not come into judgment.

John 5:24

24 “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

So those God saves have eternal life, do not lose that eternal life, and can not lose their salvation. This is what is meant by perseverance of the saints.

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2 Responses

  1. I AM NOT A CALVINIST! by steve finnell
    I BELIEVE IN PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS, BUT I AM NOT A CALVINIST!

    It is impossible to proclaim a belief in perseverance of the saints, also know as once saved always saved and eternal security, and at the same time declare you are not a Calvinist.

    The Calvinistic T.U.L.I.P explained.

    T-Total Depravity. Means that sin is in every part of one’s being, including the mind and will of man. Therefore men are without free- will. Men are saved by grace alone.

    U- Unconditional Election. God predetermines who will be saved and who will spend eternity in hell.

    L-Limited Atonement. The sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was only for the predetermined elect.

    I-Irresistible Grace. God selects men to be saved and then forces then to believe in Jesus.

    P-Perseverance of the Saints. The people God has chosen for salvation cannot lose their salvation.

    Perseverance of the saints is the culmination of the T.U.L.I.P.
    Without the first four points of the Calvinistic T.U.L.I.P there cannot be a fifth point.

    You either embrace all 5 points of the T.U.L.I.P or none of the points.

    Yes, all five T.U.L.I.P points are contrary to Scripture.

    T-Total Depravity.
    Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.(NKJV)

    All men who hear the gospel can choose to accept God’s grace or reject it.

    U-Unconditional Election.
    Faith: John 3:16
    Repentance: Acts 2:38, Acts 3:19
    Confession: Romans 10:9
    Water Baptism: Acts 2:38. Mark 16:16

    There are conditions that need to be met in order to receive salvation.

    L-Limited Atonement.
    John 1:29 The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold ! The Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world.(NKJV)

    Jesus died for the sins of all men.

    I-Irresistible Grace.
    Acts 7:51 “You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.(NKJV)

    Men did and still do resist the Holy Spirit. Grace is not irresistible.

    P-Perseverance of the Saints.
    Luke 8:13…who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.(NKJV)
    1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrine of demons.(NKJV)

    The Holy Spirit says men will fall away from the faith. Who do you believe the Holy Spirit or John Calvin?

    It you believe in perseverance of the saints, once in grace always in grace, eternal security, then you are a Calvinist.

    • Plenty of people accept some but not all points of the TULIP. So its obvious your basic starting point is invalid.

      But lets look at your other points:

      Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men.(NKJV)

      All men who hear the gospel can choose to accept God’s grace or reject it.

      First, it is obvious that while the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to everyone, this does not mean that everyone can choose to accept or reject God’s grace.

      It is the work of God that people believe – not the work of man.
      John 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.

      It does not depend upon your choice, your will, or your actions. It depends upon God.
      Romans 9:16 So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.

      John 3:16 does not say whether you can choose, but is descriptive – it describes what happens – who ever believes has eternal life. John 3:18 tells us that who ever does not believe is already condemned. But this does not tell us who will or can believe.

      Acts 2:38 and 3:19 tell people to repent and turn to God, giving evidence of salvation through baptism (being baptized IN, because you already have it, the forgiveness of sin). But again, this does not say who can do so, it just describes what happens to those who do so.

      Romans 10:9 tells us that if you confess Christ and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead that you will be – but again, this does not say whether everyone can do so or if only those God has worked in and called and given faith to and granted repentance to can do so.

      Acts 2:38. Mark 16:16 – this is confusion for those who do not understand how to read the Greek. Acts 2:#8 tells us we are to be baptized in the remission of sin – this is because we have had our sins already forgiven, not so that we will have our sins forgiven. The simply tells us that those who believe will be baptized, but those who do not believe will not be saved. But this does not tell us who will be saved – its not a choice that depends upon you, but upon God.

      Some people want to say their salvation is dependent upon their own choice. But no one is righteous and no one seeks God.

      Romans 3:10-12

      10 as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; 11 There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; 12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”

      The natural man can not accept or understand the things of God:
      1 Corinthians 2:14

      But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

      By nature, man is a child of wrath – Ephesians 2:3

      Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.

      So there is NO way anyone can come to Christ without GOD calling them, working in them, giving them faith, and granting repentance. Neither is there any way to resist God’s plan.
      Proverbs 19:21 Many plans are in a man’s heart, But the counsel of the Lord will stand.

      John 1:29 is obviously not speaking of everyone being saved (universalism). So there is a limit as to what “world” means. Its obvious that not everyone will be saved, so the entire world’s sins are not taken away – only those who are saved. But this again does not address who will be saved.

      Acts 7:51 tell us that some people resist the Holy Spirit. No one denies this. But the question is not whether it can be resisted, but whether the Holy Spirit can be resisted unto death by those God has worked in, called, given faith to, granted repentance, given the Christ. The answer is no – ONLY those who the Father gives to the Son will come to Him; ALL those the Father gives to the Son WILL come to Him and WILL be lifted up.

      John 6:36-45

      36 But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. 40 For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.” 41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, “I am the bread that came down out of heaven.” 42 They were saying, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, ‘I have come down out of heaven’?” 43 Jesus answered and said to them, “Do not grumble among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught of God.’ Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.

      John 6:63-65

      63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him. 65 And He was saying, “For this reason I have said to you, that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted him from the Father.”

      Philippians 2:13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.

      Romans 8:28-30

      28 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose. 29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

      Luke 8:13 can not be used to say these people were saved, but that they believed. This is not the same thing as a saving faith. We see in James 2:19 that demons believe and shudder – that is not saving faith.

      1 Timothy 4:1 tells us that Paul is using “of the faith” as meaning people who are part of the community known as the Christian church, not meaning people who are saved.

      We know this from 1 John 2:19 where we see people who do not remain in the faith were not of the faith to begin with.

      They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

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